New Underground Site

[shamus]

You all might want to check out a new site where you can voice your opinions, good or bad about TC. The site is run by concerned Canadian Air Operators.

 

www.underground.tc.ca

 

Be nice and play safe kiddies.

[Guest Airplay]

Yep. Checked it out. A bit of a joke in my opinion....

[The Old Fogducker]

I took the time to read almost all of the posts, and didn''t see a single one with any form of positive information to pass along or anything of benefit. It was one drivel post after another in my opinion.

 

There was the usual diatribe about abuse of power for enforcing the regulations which one of the posters places on any and all forums world-wide. That is always good for a laugh to watch him explode at the mention of DOT.

 

I''ll check back a few more times to see the form of cat fights and Civil Servant bashing that goes on, but it ranks pretty low on my list of sites with something to offer except for a smirk or two.

 

See ya

[Guest Airplay]

I went and visited the "underground" today. Its the funniest aviation site I''ve ever seen! Lots of "boo-hoo" I''ve been done wrong just because I threatened TC and broke the law....

 

What a joke! I hope they keep it up. Too bad it''s mostly anonymous. It would be nice to know which operators to avoid.....

[Charles W.]

Some facts for those of you who make light of my complaints against Transport Canada Maintenance and Manufacturing, Pacific Region.

 

Transport Canada paid Wayne McNeal of McNeal and associates to write a report on my allegations, the decision to proceed with an investigation of my complaints was made in my home on Nov. 12, 2002 by Michael Langan the then acting Regional Director General Transport Canada. I agreed to this procedure.

 

The report is finalized after being rewritten in part.

 

The findings are clear, my allegations were upheld and found to be factual.

 

However I am in the process of submitting a proof of claim document to clairify several errors in the report.

 

The proof of claim is for the purpose of receiving compensation for the losses my company and myself have incurred.

 

Now for those who accuse me of breaking the rules, regulations or having failed to comply with same please show proof of your accusations..

 

The McNeal Report will be available for anyone who wishes to read same.

 

However it may be best to wait until I find out the results of my claim for compensation.

 

There were eight recommendations at the end of the McNeal Report, the ARDG will ensure they will be acted upon. He specifically asked me to meet with him at a later date to give my suggestions with regard to recommendation number six.

 

Here is Number six:

 

Establish a formal process in conjunction with headquarters to address the concerns and complaints of the public. There is no Transport Canada policy document that addresses the situation that is presented by Mr. Ellsworth and his claim of harassment.

Civli Aviation Directive No. 28 "Complaint Handling Policy and Procedures" ( TP8749E ) and Civil Aviation Complaint Filing Procedures" do address some concerns and complaints of the public. The Director Quality Assurance, Mr. Robert Sincennes, should be consul;ted for his input. The Government Security Policy-Treasury Board Canada addresses only the internal Government complaints and not in dealing with harassment complaints from the public ( customers ) (end )

 

If any of you still think that my complaints against TC were frivolous and unfounded, please take your concerns to Robert Sincennes.

 

Chuck Ellsworth

 

 

[Charles W.]

Old Fogducker:

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

However the grounding of the airplane occured long after I had been bankrupted by the Pacific Region M&M and had cancelled my application for the FTU OC. You must also note that the School was already approved, only lacked the SOMCM and PRM approval by M&M.

 

The grounding of the airplane was just plain retaliation and act of harassement for my origional complaint against the Inspector. ( when the airplane was grounded it was on a lease to purchase agreement with a Flying School in Victoria. I had no need for the airplane if I had no school so it was sold on a lease agreement. The lease was cancelled due to the actions of the Inspector and is still grounded, due to the fact I have no money to get the prop recertified.)

 

And you wonder why I am so dissatisfied?

 

Strange that he left TC two days after the ARDG left my home.....

 

Chas W.

 

 

[The Old Fogducker]

Chuck:

 

Best of luck to you in getting the matter finally resolved before it eats you up and causes health problems.

 

Forgive my oversimplified view of what got you into this messy situation, but it looks like you had an airplane without an approved prop, an inspector found it, and did what I would expect any of them would do in the same circumstance .... told you to fix the problem. No different than them finding an old boss of mine using snowmobile battery in a Super Cruiser and a Canadian Tire alternator.....after all ...they are exactly the same components aren''t they? Funny how after they forced him to change them out, I was able to get far better starts in cold weather on skiis. 30 years later, he still figures it was a total waste of money.

 

Your only response to the airwothiness finding by the inspector who you indicate has a hate on for you for some reason, seems to have been "you are the only person to complain about it after the airplane has been flying like that for a few years, so what''s the big deal? Get stuffed, you good for nothing civil servant, get a real job."

 

What transpired after that between you and everyone concerned, I can''t comment on, but I sincerly hope you get it worked out. It obviously has stuck in your craw to the point of blocking almost all other thought processes, and is causing you to turn purple with rage over the situation .... so much so that your rants about it and Transport in general grow tiresome to read.....I can''t imagine what it is taking out of you ....it wears me out just following your various posts about the matter, and your jumping down the throats of anyone who tries to make a reference to Transport in anything less than a similar rabid rant to your postings.

 

I''ve been helped by some pretty good people in Transport over the years and any trouble I''ve had with them was of my own making....like flying charters for a week with an expired medical because I forgot what month it was due. When they caught me, what should they do?

 

That said, there have been a few Inspectors I''ve met over the years that should never have been let out in public because they had the personality of Old Yeller when he was locked in the corn crib with rabies. It only takes one of these over-egotistical, over-zealous clowns to undo years of good work by many Transport inspectors who are there passing along some good points.

 

Anyway Chuck, I ramble! Again, all the best to you in resolving this mess.

 

See ya

[downwash]

If I''d happened onto this forum knowing nothing about aircraft, Transport Canada, or any of the relevant reputations, my conclusion would have been something like, "Gee, these folks posting here, and the ones in this ''Transport Canada'' outfit, sound just like people I''ve met everywhere I''ve been, and in every industry I''ve done business. There are helpful guys and miserable jerks, there are bitchers, and ''can do'' positive types. Not much new to be found here."

 

I know it''s difficult to keep an objective demeanor when you''re under the gun and taking all the heat, but it does no-one, especially the author of legitimate complaints, the least bit of good to tar and feather entire organizations because of the actions or attitudes of one or two rotten apples. Transport Canada (Air), being positioned in relative opposition to the most individualistic and profoundly conservative group of egos in the country has, at best, a somewhat awkward mandate, and is staffed with many sincere, well-intended types trying to do some good in an industry for which many of them care a good deal. There are less magnaminous members, of course, and we''ve all run into our share of them but, in fairness, are they, overall, really any different than you and I and the folks we compete with every day? I, for one, don''t want to walk even part of a mile in their moccasins, so I''ll just do my best to comply when it''s reasonable, and work for change when it''s not.

 

Best of luck in your quest, Chas., and I respect the acknowledgment you gave where it was so obviously due.

 

[Guest Airplay]

####,

 

Its nice to have an opinion. Ours just clash. No big deal. Care to divuldge YOUR company and identity? I don't come to this site to represent my employer.

 

If you really want to make a difference though, maybe you guys should consider making an "underground" Air Canada web site. Air Canada has inflicted more harm to the Canadian aviation industry in the last 15 years than Transport Canada has managed in its entire history.

 

I can think of a whole mess of operators that would make the skies safer just by going out of business. But if you want to bury your head in the sand and continue to insist that TC is the only big bad guy on the block, go ahead...its a free country...

 

 

 

[twotter]

Very well said ####...  I wish I could say that you were the first person to express the same sentiment.. 

 

Apparently the anonymity issue is very important to our little friend from YWG as he managed to get my last post removed from the public forum.  I personally do not understand why one really needs to be anonymous unless they have something to hide.  Some of us like Chuck and myself have openly disclosed who we are, others are also well known. 

 

I guess that''s the way things will always be though, just like with politics.  The whining special interest groups who badger the persons in power will always get their way and the majority will suffer for it. 

 

As for the underground site, great...  Of course this is where people are going to do their complaining..  That''s what it''s all about..  As for anonymity, well like you said, if it''s fine to be anonymous here....  What''s the difference????  The following cracks me up in it''s lack of intelligence..

 

quote:  "now quit your whining once and for all."

 

Thats the point of my post(s).  The "underground" TC site is full of unconstructive whining.

 

I agree on the anonimity bit.  But that doesn''t dilute my desire to know who the operators who are doing the "whining" in the underground.."  end quote..

 

If you really want to know who they are buddy, maybe you should not be so ashamed to let people know your name...