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3000 feet visibility is half a nautical mile so no laws are broken flying in that if the required training, etc is performed... Did Skids Up mean that 3000 feet away it was clear but where the machines were was totally clagged in?


Most of this stuff boils down to peer pressure and having the assertiveness to say no to an uncomfortable situation. It's extremely difficult to develop if you're not born with it but it'll sure make the job less stressful in the long run. I have been on jobs where the pilots agree to go with the lowest common denominator when deciding when to fly. That is as soon as one guy no longer feels comfortable because of wind or something, some solidarity is shown and everybody calls it quits. It's a little annoying sometimes when you're out enjoying the challenges of a windy day and somebody else has had enough, but it provides a great deal of security in the proverbial "United Front"... they can't run us all off!!

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skids up ------it's really not fair to either country or it's pilots to compare the two in the enviroment that you stated. For eons, the background of the USFS personnel was one of doing it the military way because that's all they knew.......because they had either all served Regular Military though the Draft or in other ways. The USFS rules in many regards were formulated and wet, way back when, by people with this background. The vast majority of the rules you and I must obey while working for the USFS have a "military smell" to them and that's the reason why.


If you compare the backgrounds of those within our Forest Services, you find no such comparision on any front and that doesn't make them any less qualified in fighting fires or doing their jobs. I'm using this to show that we are gradually taking some of the American system from them and using it ourselves. What you speak of will also come along some day and it's pilots like yourself who will "grease the skids' for that to happen quicker. Keep at'er.

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Just because something's legal, doesn't make it sensible. The amount of customers who got upset and insisted I try anyway when you couldn't see across the runway at Rainbow Lake was quite surprising. Since it costs around $100 just to start a jetbox, I wasn't about to waste company money. The problem is, we (the industry) have given them those expectations.


“The least experienced press on,

while the more experienced turn back –


to join the most experienced, who didn’t take off in the first place”


And the last time it happened that I know of, the guy that poured another coffee and watched everyone else go off into the murk actually got into the site first, by at least half an hour!



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Aaah Phil... if you can't see across the runway then it would certainly be pointless to even start up... however, you can be sitting in a hole in the trees with loonie sized flakes falling and have no idea how bad it really is until you actually get in the air... I have "had a look" many times and found it to be very flyable and certainly waaaay better than it appeared from the ground. Also, if a customer wants me "to try"... he's paying the tab... I'm talking about using common sense here... if there's "murk" that you're dealing with then common sense dictates that you have your answer already... no need to investigate further... However, I know from experience that a customer will bother you far less if they think you're breathlessly waiting for a break in the weather... it's all about perception.


And as for legal not necessarily being sensible (a natural non sequitur I think) of course that's true... but I wanted clarity on the 3000 foot thing... 'cause Helilog56 mentioned "grounds for termination"... and since half a statute mile is less than 3000 feet I thought there might be some confusion...




P.S. Why does it cost $100 to start a Jetranger?

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:wacko: Typo?....... H.V. provided the company ops manual specifies 1/2 mile, a lot of ops out there do not......Anyways, grounds for termination are based on blatent disregard for rule/law violations (stupidity), especially when safety is compromised. When we had one of our pilot's run his aircraft to low on fuel (for the 3rd time), wandering in the shmoo on Van Island, enough was enough. His excuse.....brand x is doing it????? I hope througout his career, he clued in...... :blink:
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There are two types of pilots, those who run low on fuel, and those that run low on fuel and get caught.

Until you've been there, seen all the factors that can come into play, and had the experience to determine the outcome, please refrain from judging others. In a perfect world it would be full tanks all the time, but then the 4 hours endurance would always be stretched to 4.2, 4.3, 4.5, you get the point I hope.

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I was on a job and a guy landed about twenty miles out 'cause he was starting to sweat... it so happens his boss was there and ranted and raved about what an idiot he was... and then guess who needed a couple of jerry cans brought out to him a few weeks later? Ahhhh the humanity!!!


A wicked headwind can ruin the best laid plans... I have never had to call for a fuel delivery but I've been close a few times... I want to be the guy who has the courage to land and ask for help... not continue on and flame out like many people have done in the past... It is far better to swallow one's pride and admit to an error of judgement... and hopefully not repeat the same mistake (especially not three times).

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