Chl Ems Pilots Certified

[Night Hawk]

Hi 412

Checked out your salary, sounds like we're making the same $ but I'm a senior captain, FO's are far behind. Like I said earlier there is a lot more to it than just money.

I find it strange that people who don't work EMS feel they can criticize those that do for making a decision that most of us thought long and hard about. As a generalization most pilots are of the "rugged individual" type and I know a lot of my fellow pilots agonized over signing a union card. I felt "compelled" because we seemed to have exhausted all other avenues to resolve our problems. Just because a union is our last resort does not mean that there is not a lot of support, I think 85% is a fair number.

[Helilog56]

"sigh"...... A sad state of affairs, if it has come down to this (unionizing). Does one think if management had a "poor attitude" before, that now they would be about to change, because 85% feel it was their only way to have a voice? What about the other 15%? Wonder what they are thinking right now. By the way....it is relatively unclear to me, as to exactly what the EMS pilots problems/complaints are. Were there unsafe working conditions? Was, or is, the pay scale that far below industry standards? Was it because of "poor management" attitudes towards the pilots? What role(s) and or input do the company engineers have in all this? I am hoping someone there can enlighten me, and some others here in the industry, as to what the" hardships" are. From what I have seen first first hand with our U.S. brothers, the contempt between ownership/management and union(s) is worse than ever. Someone posted earlier,"now the rest of the industry has come on line with the EMS pilots"....Huh!....Who ever said that EMS pilots are different or segregated from the rest of us? Is that also, how the (now) union members feel? If you can perhaps educate the rest of us, perhaps that quote would hold true, maybe we would "come on line", but if you keep most, or all of us guessing, the reactions you have seen here in this thread, is only the beginning, of what is probably, "union bashing". Solidarity does not have to come in the form of a union....for all the time effort and money spent in this case, perhaps it could have gone a long way, in trying to form an overall flight crew association representing a broader membership..........Maybe!

[Blackmac]

The major reason people signed OPEIU cards is for reason #2 of the previous post. We're fed up and are standing up for our rights to be treated with respect and be compensated in accordance with the Federal Labour Code, not according to the whims of a couple of senior managers..

 

Nothing is a "Holy Grail" but now there is strength in numbers and convictions and at least we can work to improve our system. If anyone thinks the union support was barely enough for certification, ask any of our pilots. The support is in excess of 85%.

 

Congratulations on certification, it probably should of happened 20 years ago and the industry would be in better shape, tarrif and employee wise.

 

I would have preferred an association such as HEPAC, moleded on the principals of HAI and including all pilots and engineers being able to communicate.

 

Such is life and for the people trying to advocate that life will not change for the individual crews, you are sadly mistaken.

 

I happen to be an ex CHC employee and was well treated at the time, but this is not an individual company problem, it's an industry problem.

 

It just shows that the EMS guys are smarter.

 

Again, congratulations.

 

Cheers, Don

:up: :up:

[Swinger]

I hope that the 85% of the pilots who vote to strike over "X cause" (the mystery should be solved soon Helilog56), remember the families of the engineers etc that will be affected by that decision. Maybe your solidarity amongst yourselves will be able to mend the broken fences with those individuals.

 

It brings back memories of when you signed your name at the bottom of the page accepting the job. What changed that makes it so bad now?

[412driver]

i actually made a mistake when posting my salaries........ :shock:

 

before i got the $1500.00 per month on that first job i was getting my accomodation and $25.00 per day for food. i was pretty happy to get that as it was a start.

 

:punk: :shock: :punk: :up: :punk: :punk:

[treetopflyer]

For any of you union toters out there....log onto Justhelicopters.com, and climb into that mess....read into the posts, and see how well union solidarity has worked for them....

 

Hey Helilog56,

 

Log onto justhelicopters.com and look at any subject. It's the same flaming regardless of subject.

 

ttf

[treetopflyer]

I hope that the 85% of the pilots who vote to strike over "X cause" (the mystery should be solved soon Helilog56), remember the families of the engineers etc that will be affected by that decision. Maybe your solidarity amongst yourselves will be able to mend the broken fences with those individuals.

 

It brings back memories of when you signed your name at the bottom of the page accepting the job. What changed that makes it so bad now?

 

Hey swinger,

 

All the engineers I work with are very interested in signing on and are very supportive.

 

Your attitude of "What changed that makes it so bad now?" indicates that you are one of those ppl who choose to work for the same wage they worked for in 1979. With no serious improvements in salary and many many other issues how long would you go before moving on or trying to change it. Many pilots don't want to move on they want to improve it so here we are.

 

I'm sure you've heard the saying "Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes."

 

Are all these groups wrong too?? The Canadian Federal Pilots Association includes all Transport Canada, Coast Guard and Transportaion Safety Board of Canada pilots. Air Logistics. CHC Helikopter Service. Bristow Helicopters. CHC Helicopters, Australia. Petroleum Helicopters.

 

ttf

[Helilog56]

I hope that the 85% of the pilots who vote to strike over "X cause" (the mystery should be solved soon Helilog56), remember the families of the engineers etc that will be affected by that decision. Maybe your solidarity amongst yourselves will be able to mend the broken fences with those individuals.

 

It brings back memories of when you signed your name at the bottom of the page accepting the job. What changed that makes it so bad now?

On the contrary Swinger.....maybe you misunderstood my points. I do not find a lot that is wrong with this industry for myself......I am just "asking" what is so wrong, that brought up the union to form in the first place. Help me (and others) try to understand what the problems are? I am far from being critical here. It is solely my own opinion when i show dismay towards unionizing. My reasons of personal experience with unions prior to my aviation career run deep, but i harbour no ill will. I certainly do hope, if things were that tough there, it will be your answer to your problems......but if i were a betting man.....?

[donut king]

Hello gents and ladies!

 

Have been reading these replies and much of it is one sided. To balance things off, let me add my opinion....just my opinion!

 

The Europeans have been unionized for years. They are well ahead of the North American view on unions and workplace perspectives. Many of us look down on the way they approach their careers/ employment.....shame on us/me!

 

Let's be honest...the Canadian helo industry has not progressed into present day attitudes ( i.e..."you should be greatful to have a job" mentality!). I would suggest that the owners/ managers should be greatful that we are providing the LABOUR that they have promised to THEIR customer. If there were no helicopter pilots to fly their a/c, who would be out of business???

 

I would hope that the EMS dudes do not create an antagonistic atmosphere, but rather an environment of professional aviation services (the LABOUR) provided to the employer (the BUSINESS) for a fair, if not lucrative, remuneration.

[Swinger]

First off, i've worked for two employers, raises every year, usually well above cost of living, as well as bonus' every year, and treated fair, even when the sh*t is hitting the fan.

Sorry if I misunderstood anything you said Helilog.

As for the europeans and unions, think closely how it affects the helicopter operations in canada, think turbomeca....enough said. I'd hate to see our beloved operation curtailed because of constant union battles over BS that could be dealt with if there wasn't the walls of hostility in place that unions created.

Someone has cast the first stone, and we'll see how it affects the industry, I hope the rest sit on the sidelines and see how this plays out before jumping in. I'd rather see one ship sink than the whole armada.