Chl Ems Pilots Certified

[Dude]

The certification is being watched more closely then most would believe.

Operators will be quietly keeping a close eye on the outcome.

[Skids Up]

...that fire guys for stupid reasons and disclude person from working in the industry for bogus reasons. Under a union you have to make a serious mistake to get fired, no more red herrings , no more personnality conflicts no more culling of the heard...

 

While the news is good, and (maybe) heading in the right direction, soon employeers will be stuck with the ones they would have once culled.

 

As the penduleum swings, it will go way over to the other side, and soon, customers will have to accept pilots and engineers, that they wouldn't have put up with before, or have on their jobsite.

 

The happy medium between the two, is very hard to find.

 

I have never worked for a union, (have seen lots of people out of work in the union, while I just continued on), but I hope that it works for everyone. Unfortunately, they seem to be more about the "working" than the "job suppliers".

 

Sometimes we forget who is paying the bills....

 

And no, not a "job supplier", just a working stiff like so many... :bye:

[PerfectTrack]

so the dickheads who treat employees like crap will get their "punishment", but what do we do about the emplyees who don't cut the mustard?

 

Maybe the companies will up the ante on the training end, you want to play with the big boys...better hone up those flying skills. one way or another they'll get you.

 

"I'm sorry (you loud mouth whiney pilot who complains about everything under the sun), you failed to execute that auto and simulated T/R failure to our standards and we won't be renewing your contract this year"

[Skids Up]

There is so much more than flying abilities at play here.

 

What about the obnoxious pilot/engineer?

What about the smelly pilot/engineer?

What about the "always late-never on time" pilot/engineer?

What about ...?

What about ...?

 

How will you be able to deal with these peoples rights?

And the lack of rights of the employer?

 

This is the problem. Would be nice if there was an easy fix, but there isn't...

[jetbox]

This is a question for donut king and other pro-union advocates out there:

Have you ever worked for an employer that treated you very well, that appreciated the efforts you were making for the company, that told you in a respectable manner when you made a mistake and worked with you to help you learn from that mistake and become an even better employee, that paid you a good wage (as much as is practicaly possible, given how low the rates are), that gave you continuous advancement in the company based on your experience, skill development and seniority.........????????? My guess is not.

 

You know guys, it really sucks that some of us have had bad experiences in this business because there are real assh*le operators out there. Of all the people that I've worked with since the late '80s, 70 to 80 percent of them were excellent workers with good attitudes etc. And of all these people that are still in the industry and that I'm still in contact with or have come accross since then, most of them are working for good operators. These operators are never perfect but they're not "assh*le operators" either.

Of the six operators I've worked with up until now, 2 really sucked, 2 were tolerable and the last two were and are simply awsome! I get treated with respect, they continually remind me how they appreciate the work I do, they let me know if there are issues that need to be addressed and my wage is well above $75 000 a year. I didn't like working for assh*les so I moved on of my own free will. Every move I made was on my terms and brought me to a better employer every time.

On the same token, most of my co-workers have done the same over the years and also find themselves in excellent positions.

 

It's been my experience that there are good and bad operators in the business. It is also MY opinion that the good ones far outnumber the bad ones. Unionizing a bad employer won't make the place attractive to work at all of a sudden, it will simply take your option to make a choice away is all (what the union decides, you have to go with it remember?).

It's also been my experience that good emplyees don't put up with crap and they don't sit around complaining about it and hoping for the union to walk in and solve all their problems. Good employees are good emplyees because they are good people first and foremost. They take charge of their furture and MAKE good things happen instead of waiting around for oppertunities to fall in their lap!

If you have the right attitude and work ethics, it's been my experience that a good operator will invest in you to develop your skills and become a productive and valuable team member.

 

There are plenty of excellent operators out there people, you don't have to go far to find one and most of them are looking for good employees. You can either sit and complain that your current employer doesn't treat you like he should or you can tell him to stuff it and find one who will!

 

 

There is so much more than flying abilities at play here.

 

What about the obnoxious pilot/engineer?

What about the smelly pilot/engineer?

What about the "always late-never on time" pilot/engineer?

What about ...?

What about ...?

 

How will you be able to deal with these peoples rights?

And the lack of rights of the employer?

 

You're kidding right??

 

An obnoxious pilot/engineer needs to learn to get along with people or find another job!

A smelly pilot/engineer needs to learn to shower or find another job!

The "always late-never on time" pilot/engineer ESPECIALLY needs to learn to grow up, show up on time like everyone else or find another job!!

 

If any of these scenarios presented themselves at my current place of employment, that particular employee would be given many chances to correct these flaws because they affect the customer, the employer and thus the employee himself. If he/she was unable to do so, my employer would do all that is possible to help them with these problems. If he/she refused or didn't care about correcting these flaws after many chances to do so, he/she would be shown the door and rightly so!

[PerfectTrack]

i totally agree with you JB.

 

But there definately isn't enough positions at those good companies to fill all the spots with good people. Thats where the supply issue comes back. For the time being every company will have a dogs breakfast of personnel. Those companies with a greater proportion of pro union will find themselves unionise and then they isolate themselves from the market. Survive and prosper maybe...maybe not.

[Skids Up]

You're kidding right??

 

An obnoxious pilot/engineer needs to learn to get along with people or find another job!

A smelly pilot/engineer needs to learn to shower or find another job!

The "always late-never on time" pilot/engineer ESPECIALLY needs to learn to grow up, show up on time like everyone else or find another job!!

No, not really.

 

My point was that in a union setting, going by what we see in the "rest of the world", these types are hard (impossible) to get rid of. They now would have too many 'rights' and can't be fired, let go, etc.

 

If they are not willing to change, you, (employers, customers, and other employes) would be stuck with them, thanks to the union.

 

Have you ever worked for an employer that treated you very well, that appreciated the efforts you were making for the company, that told you in a respectable manner when you made a mistake and worked with you to help you learn from that mistake and become an even better employee, that paid you a good wage (as much as is practicaly possible, given how low the rates are), that gave you continuous advancement in the company based on your experience, skill development and seniority.........????????? My guess is not.

 

I guess I lucked out on this one. I can say yes to almost everything here. I am happy with my present place of work. Have been at some other good ones, and have been at worse.

 

...so I moved on of my own free will. Every move I made was on my terms and brought me to a better employer every time.

I will never be convinced that the union is the answer, unless you just want to wait

 

for the union to walk in and solve all their problems.

 

Thanks, but I'll keep going on my own ability, it has served me well for a tad over 32 years.

[hurler]

Well , I really wish I could say there are lots of good operators out there, unfortunately I can count them on one hand. The majority are interested in one thing over and above the welfare and sanity of the pilots they hire. Profits!! Screw the pilot if there is a problem with a client - option 1 blame it on the pilot!

 

A few years ago I was doing a job with INCO, had a great working releationship with the client , he still sends me christmas cards today.Well during the process of the contract the operation mangers had give an estimate of the number of hours he believed was reguired to get the job done, and there was an understanding that these hours where a rough estimate and this is what was budgeted for. It just so happened that the operations manager had placed a fule cache in the wrong spot and the project ran about 25 hours over budget. Well guess what happened so that the company could save face and not look stupid.-- Thats right "blame it on the pilot" I got for bullshiit- Then the operations manager had the balls to tell me that the cleint said he was unhappy with the flying. Well the chief geologist and I are still close friends today and we laugh together over what has become an industry standard. Nothing like catching a liar in a lie.

 

This is exactly why we need a union. :up:

[treetopflyer]

CHL currently has a process for dealing with discipline.

 

The union bargainers may try to negoitiate some changes to it or may not. This issue is not a large one for the members I know.

 

The issue of protecting the undeserving is actually more of an issue for many. Many do not want our ranks to become filled with problem co-workers and below the standard pilots any more then the company does.

 

The issue of pilots being fired for inapporpriate reasons has not been a problem of recent memory in the EMS division. The company would have to follow their own discipline process and yes the employee would have the support of a union representative.

 

ttf

[hurler]

The point is that if this flys and it appears to be doing just that . It will set a strong direction towards the unionization of the entire industry. I pray for the day that the industry know-it-alls power is reduced to a trickle . I look forward to the day when a proper conflict resolution mechanism can be put in place to protect the rights of the pilot. There are many many pilots who are deserving of working in this industry but for stupid reasons have been "culled" or unjustly dismissed on the whim of some management idiot who didn't like them for reasons that have nothing to do with the ability opf the person to do the job safely or get along with clients.

 

What a union will do is put an end to the groupi cliqee BS that is so abundant in this industry. Not every body is the same, yet everybody deserves to have thier rights protected and job security protected . If a pilot is unsafe they should be fired. But if the management is feeling threatened by a person for fear of loosing his or her job they are hooped under a union. What it will do is provide an equal opportunity for all who are capable and the manipulators, and back room entry personell changes will be eliminated all together. As it stands now you can be fired for any reason at all as longs as severance is paid, under a union this goes out the window, thankfully!.

 

The list of Bullshiit is long so I'll spare everyone the details, it's very promissing what's afoot.

 

H