All Your Training In A Turbine ?

[T tail]

Lets throw the cat amongst the pigeons !!!! I know this has sort of been discussed before but i feel like winding everyone up :up: ha ha

There has been discussion in the great slave thread about straight turbine training at a huge expense !!

Now my arguement is this..who is going to know more about flying a helicopter, the guy who has say 90 hours on a piston and the last 10 in a turbine or even the last 5...or the guy who did 100 hours in a 206 ??? I'm talking about power management...wind direction...loaded disc approaches...how easy it is too run out of height, speed and idea's !! I feel something's have to be installed in the sudent from day one and flying a turbine empty doesn't give this, so I'm going to go for the guy who has mostly piston hours and give him the job flying the 206 :shock:

 

My 2 cents, these replies should be interesting :up:

 

Cheers TT

[twinstar_ca]

i think the argument for has always been that since most people would have found their 1st job to be on a 206, it would make them a little more employable... mind you, there wasn't the prolific use of R22's and R44's back then...

 

when i was a teen, i read a story in the old canadian aviation magazine about when a guy named robert grant (freelance writer/fw driver) was sent to the old canadore college and did his conversion to r/w all on the 206... i think his employer was the OMNR at the time and it was on their dime...

 

so it still really comes down to the old story of what you can afford.. if you got 2 rich grandmas, then maybe you can do it all on a turbine... but i would think they would have a ***** of a time if they ever had to try collective/throttle correlation..

[Needles Split]

When I was trying to break into the business(1994) I was told by several operators in the west that my 350 hrs wasn't of any use to them because 225 of it was PISTON ! Well I guess times have changed a bit......the R-22 / R-44 along with some other small piston type A/C have actually entered into the Commercial world of helicopters so there are jobs out there suited for low timers with piston experience.

I went to school prepared to do 50 / 50 (EN28F/206B) but the other 4 lads could only afford 80/20........worst mistake I ever made was letting the school talk me out of my original plan.

Twinstar your correct in saying students won't learn anything from flying an empty 206, however, if the instructors took the time to visit the real world instead of the back side of the aerodrome, training techniques could be simulated like the real thing?

Why go do confined areas with 2 people on board and no back seat weight or cargo in the hold.......LOAD UP THE A/C!!!

 

My 2 cents

[Snowroller]

Well,as far as Needles Split is concerned....fill the loader bucket with snow not half fill it,extra passes mean more fuel per hrs worked and don`t be intimidated by the size & power of the Cat,practice with a full blade of snow to learn how to keep it level so the machine won`t porpoise,don`t you remember ANYTHING that I taught you?

[Iceman]

My RW add-on was done in the 47 which handles like a real helicopter. Found work (as a logging co-pilot) before the ink was dry on my license and scored a job flying a Jetranger after that.

 

For ME personally I am glad I never trained in an R-22, therefore I do not have an R-22 endorsement and I never want to have one, I would quit flying helicopters and go back to fixed wing if it ever came down to that.

 

Granted the Robbies were not as popular back then and these days there may be little choice for the low timer but to start out in one.

 

My advise is to do the bulk of your training in a piston then invest in a turbine endorsement. It also helps to bring something else to the table when looking for your first job like computer skills (offer to publish a website for them) or maintenance skills (be willing to get your hands dirty) etc, be positive and creative.

 

And remember, "Thoughts Become Things"

 

[Cry of the Wind]

Since I have only one rich grandma I'm going for the 50/50 split of turbine/piston. That said if the option were there for 100 turbine would it really make a big difference compared to flying a robbie for the first 50 hours? When a potential employer is looking at your logbook and see there is 50 turbine hours there do they expect that this is all done with an empty machine or couldn't care less anyway since I'm just another 100 hour wonder? I'm just about finished logging my first 10 hours in a 206 and am wondering a bit about how an employer will look at my logbook. Do solo hours in a turbine make any difference either?

 

COTW

[Skids Up]

and see there is 50 turbine hours there do they expect that this is all done with an empty machine

 

So why do it with an empty machine???

 

You're paying for it, (the school should have some sandbags and if they don't, tell them to get some), and fill it up and see what it is like. The only drawback is that you will probably have to load and unload then yourself, but then that will prepare you for the real world anyway.

 

Plus you'll learn all about weight and balance as you will be able to load it heavy or light, off centre, or whatever you like. You'll get good at the calulations, and the feel of different loads.

 

And then get your instructor to note in your logbook that this was done.

 

You're paying a big buck for the 206 training, make it count.

[Cry of the Wind]

My instructor has already told me about loading up the machine with some stuff we have around the hanger, maybe even take some people up when doing dual cross country, I'm just not at that stage yet. Having him note it in the log book is simple enough. The solo hours are something I've never heard anything about. I have to do a bunch in the 206 anyway but I've never heard anyone say that it is useful to have solo turbine hours or not, or if it matters at all.

 

COTW

[Cole]

Thought I would ressurect this thread as training with Great slave has become an option. If I did do all my training on a jetbox you can bet it would be loaded.

 

GSHL is chargeing 800 an hour for the 206 and (I think) the same for 500D. I would think that if I were to do all 206 time they would be the place to go with as they are aiming to hire all their students.

 

This kind of money isnt really important to me, money isnt the kind of thing I worry about. I have found a few jobs that could bring in this kind of money in a year or 2, so worst comes to worst I have wasted my time, not my money.

 

Im not trying to justify wasteing money, just wondering if the money is in fact wasted.

 

The job isnt a sure thing, but everyone I have talked to has said that it is a really good program and that the only reason they wouldnt hire their students now that they have downed class sizes is if they felt you werent made for the industry which they would have (hopefully) told you within the first 10-20 hours.

 

Cole :punk:

[hurler]

All 206b time would be great for the operator thats going to hire you.But wait why not load the machine close to max gross and train under real world operational setting. With all the power out there today, finding a good 206 pilot is no easy task.

 

Canador used to do 206 training, sad shame that school is no more! :down:

 

I did the 50 50 but worked 2 jobs to pay that bill, but it wasn't what it costs today, I think the whole thing cost me around 30K.

 

Good luck

 

H