Contrail

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PT,

 

While I see what you're saying, and to a certian extent agree with the way you and I both prefer dealing with mangt, the fact is that in aviation we eat our young.

 

For that reason these idiotic suggestions will work. If my company stands against it, and yours doesn't, they win. And someone will always go for the money/work if it is there. Ideology is nice until the creditors start calling. That's why an association of some type does merit a closer look.

 

AR

[Helilog56]

don't treat me like an imbecile.

I know what HAI is, I know the differences between unions and associations. Too bad you think you have all the answers for me. You gave up on your dream, let it die. Nobody took the reigns if I remember correctly, must speak volumes for the need. My form of communication is with the boss' door closed behind me, I don't need a gang of merry gentlemen doing my dirty work for me, association or union based.

 

I've read many of the posts in here and find that the new rules won't be accepted easily, and that's your right, but remember professionalism and airmanship is reflected in your replies and in your actions.

Actually P.T,what "dirty work" is it you do? Your attitude, reminds me why an association would (did), have a hard time forming. To many independent aggenda's, and ego's. It was/is a high percentage of flight crews that refused to "take the reigns" and support HEPAC. If you, and others can not see the merit and or advantages in what Don was trying to put together, well, the industry will stay in a "slow" state of progression in areas, that others on this site complain about. Strong representation, comes from membership, not a "gang of merry gentlemen". Believe me, i am as anti-union as it get's, and i enjoy this industry (a lot), but as someone pointed out, look at COPA . Look outside the box, i can see (potential) help for low timers, advanced training, safety programs, scholarships, insurance benefits, pay scale standards, etc. if an association were to have a strong membership base. It would take years, to build, but in order to do that a foundation has to be there.....but regretfully, i doubt i will see it in my life time.....

[Charles W.]

When Don tried to form an association for helicopter pilots I was willing to support it financially with whatever the fee was because even though I no longer am actually flying in the industry I am all to well aware that without an association the industry will be at the mercy of those who know sweet phuck all about what is really needed.

 

On the other hand why should I or any of the people who have been in this industry before some of you were born really give a **** about you getting shafted because you are to stupid to understand what in **** the industry really is all about...

 

...there once again I feel I have unburdened myself of stress caused by frustration.. :up:

 

Rev

[Phil Croucher]

Cap, ol' bean, how are ya? The whisky here is a lot more expensive

 

If you recall another thread where I mentioned that one "consultant" ran his aeroplane off a runway and got them to double its length, having neglected to tell them he started his takeoff run in the middle - well, I'm told that that pilot and the person in Contrail are one and the same.

 

To all:

 

I don't think anyone's going to have a chance to ignore his rules - he's unfortunately got the ear of many customers, who are scared witless of the word "safety" combined with the word "litigation". The helicopter industry won't have a thing to do with it, so don't think if you ignore him it will go away. Until the customers themselves get people who can see through him, we're gonna be stuck with it. And this doesn't include people with an illustrious miltary career in fast jets and 50 hours on helicopters!

 

It would be part of an association's job to make sure that customers get good, unbiased advice, like the BHAB does in UK. I still think HEPAC's a good idea. You sometimes relinquish your authority to ATC don't you? Well how about relinquishing some of your ego to an association?

 

Phil

[shaggy]

i think an association would definitely have it's merits and perhaps the efforts of blackmac went by the wayside because the majority of us were too lazy or too cheap to either support him or pick up where he left off.

if there was an organization (of professionals) that might be able to convince the clients that the level of safety is not directly proportional to the whiteness of ones shirt or the number of bars on the sleeve, then i'd happily defer to them in this case. they'd probably be able to put their argument that we are all trained and licensed by our governing body (not to mention employers) across more diplomatically than i would and perhaps avoid a pi$$ing match that would only get me kicked off the job.

[cap]

Albert Ross -----I'm afraid that I've been a tad misunderstood on my position on all this. I have no problem with a union, association, etc. The same rules would be applied by me to the unions, etc., that I apply to the companies I work for..........treat me right or loose me.

 

I was referring to the changes within the industry over my career. I learned to improvise, adapt and overcome on the majority of them, but I'm fast reaching my limit of tolerance. Perhaps those changes are inevitable and are designed to remove old, supposed "deadwood" such as I, with our outdated, archaic ideas.

 

As an example:

 

1) I still believe that the absolute most basic part of flying any kind of a/c is the D.I. before the first flight of each day. That act is slowly, but surely starting to erode away. It is now acceptable by some companies that once the engineer has conducted his/her inspection, that the pilot can just show up, climb in and take-off.

Sorry, but "in my world" of basic aviation of the late 50's and early 60's, such an attitude or act was unjustifiable by anyone including Chuck Yeager himself.......then again Chuck Yeager is "dated" also.

 

2) The total number of hours was limited by some "high forehead" to 1200 hours/year and not more than 300 hours per quarter. The reason given was "Safety". Then, when these same "high forheads" were pressured by operators to increase that figure to 450 hours for the summer months, "Safety" was then increased to that 450 hours. At which figure......300 hours or 450.....were they mistaken about that limit for "safety" was/is? Could it possibly be that they don't know what they are talking about on either limit? I can only assume that either "they" don't know what they are talking about or "they" think that I'm a rejectee from the movies "Deliverance" because I couldn't play the banjo.

 

3) There was at one time a thing called "airmanship". Included within that item was something called "courtesy of the air". I went for decades until I started seeing that erode. Nowadays, witnessing a pilot with/without a sling load, passing over the "Jesus Nut" of some helicopter with the cowlings laying next to the a/c is not unusual at all.......in fact, I now expect it and am seldom disappointed.

 

I could go on, but the point is that something has happened to the industry I love and to those who regulate it.

[Phil Croucher]

I wasn't gettin' at you! Note the edit above.

 

You're right, the old standards are going - but it's only the good ones. I'm with you on the DI. It's a walk on the wild side to have the engineers undo the blades for me as they do here! On the plus side, as soon as a machine lands they crawl all over it!

 

Phil

[Harmonic_Vibe]

I play the banjo Cap!!! Some of my friends (notably Hogie) even call me banjo! But I don't get treated any differently than you...

[Outwest]

An old friend of mine has started a Safety Consulting venture, check it out. Good luck Lyal.

www.aviationsafetysystems.com

[Guest Bullet Remington]

I wasn't gettin' at you! Note the edit above.

 

You're right, the old standards are going - but it's only the good ones. I'm with you on the DI. It's a walk on the wild side to have the engineers undo the blades for me as they do here! On the plus side, as soon as a machine lands they crawl all over it!

 

Phil

 

 

That's the way it should be Albert. Lookit, we have already ascertained that pilots are cerifiable and have big heads. There were a couple of posts on here earlier stating that.

 

When I'm out with a machine, the machine belongs to me, period. The driver is there simply because I need him to verify what I already know, or to validate what I don't. It IS my job to ensure that the machine works the way the manufacturer stated it will work and that it works in accordance with the company's MPM, Ops Manual and meets the requirements of the contract.

 

In order to do that, I HAVE to be all over that machine like stink on a skunk's behind. I don't want the blade covers put on, I don't want the bubble cover on, I don't want the tail boom covered. I can't see it if its covered. If its covered in means I've checked it and we're good to go and continue makin money.

 

As for the pilot doing a DI. He damned well better. Lookit folks, most of my work is done at nite, usually outside in sub zero weather. I am extremely concerned that I may miss something and the machine may not be able to work. Or even worse GOD FORBID, I may end up hurting my driver. Now the machine I can put back togather, I have yet to find a pilot that works well when put back togather with PRC around his fayed edges and held togather with rivets. Plus, I just don't have time to train another new driver.

 

Further, if I do inadvertently miss something, I want another set of yes looking at the machine. Personally I'd rather have another engineer find it. But if I'm in a bind I'll tolerate a driver looking.

 

Having a driver do a DI tells me that I'm NOT working with a cowboy, I'm working with someone who appreciates that fact that the company must meet its obligations to the customer. It tells me the driver cares about the condition of the ship, tells me the driver is aware that I've worked on it and tells me he cares. It also tells me that, baring a catastophic failure we're gonna be ok. The machine, the driver and I are going to finish the contract, the customer is going to be happy, the company is going to be happy and the driver and I will be back working for the company as soon as they get another contract.

 

Plus, I get to watch the driver crawl around the machine and make fun of his BFA in that too small flight suit!

 

Life is good!!