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The Tail Of The Tiger (astar)


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Not being a pilot but a wrench, I have not had the opertunity to land a machine and experience this, But in Blue River a few years ago I got the chance to change an Astar drivetrain a 9500 feet after the pilot dipped his tail in the snow. Both tip indicators were fine but the root of one blade cracked over 75% around the blade cuff. The T/R driveshaft had twisted about 270 degrees and the gbx oil looked like metalflake paint. The a/c sat for 2 weeks in weather befor we got to it, so it was full of snow and the engine was frozen solid. I have some pic someware and will post them when I get home. The suprising thing was the tip indicators, NO damage or bending. This happened in light fluffy dry snow.

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So there you go,,,Fluffy snow not good for tailrotors. Keep em in the air.

 

Thanks for the advice Mr 407, I'd just heard that info so we may have a few landings up north that won't work for the 407.

cheers!

 

Oh and no beer will be spilled in the 407, The hottub on the other hand.........

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Don't spill beer in the hot tub either rainman!! It'll affect the ph of the water... although it's good for the hair apparently (not that I'd know)...

 

Anyway, what I wanted to know I think has been answered, which was wether it was normal or the result of an error to have your tail in the snow. I think it's important that people not accept it as a part of doing business, but instead work towards a perfect approach each and every time... I may never make it, but I never stop trying for perfection.

 

HV

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A very experienced OK/CHW/CHL Pilot/Instructor (who I'm buying Dinner for tonight) once told me that always make sure that you're checking forward on the cyclic on landing, as if you ever come in a bit hot and you check backwards, you'll be making tail tracks in the snow...or worse.

 

Hey 407D

Say 'Hi' to N.B. for me and tell him he better take care of my old AStar. :D

 

As others have stated, that third skid mark is not normal. It is a warning that you are doing something wrong and are about to stuff the tail rotor into the snow as well if you don't correct it.

 

Seeing that third skid mark is like seeing skid marks in your underwear. Not a good thing! :P

 

Cheers!

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Kojack, er I mean Cojo,

 

 

Did you not learn anything from Pollywog there skipper?

 

How did he teach you to land in the mountains eh?

 

"you should be pushing the cyclic forward and pulling the aircraft in with collective"

 

pretty hard to hit the tail spring if ya follow those words of wisdom... of course unless you are doing recurrent in yxd and have to stop and get out to pick up spare parts...2 years in a row!!!

 

ah, the older i get all i have to look forward to are my memories and viagra prescription.

 

 

and remember, vibrating and shaking are two differt things there Harmonic!!! :lol::lol::lol:

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thats what the tail skid is for. (in response to 67N)

while were at it, lets add some of those to the skid gear and why not add something extra to the belly too, to the antenna's and to the horizontal stab. that way no matter what hits first, you've got a prior indication. If we keep up this idea, where will it stop? M/R Blade tip indicators? How's about a hula hoop around the helicopter 1 foot larger than the rotor diameter?

Or will we eventually just have a ship so weighted down with crap it won't fly? Yeah that's it, if they don't fly, they won't get wrecked.

 

 

I have great picture of the third skid through a grain field as well. Proves that it just isn't snow you have to worry about. I was going to post it, but realised it'll identify me.

Which brings me to an interesting thread I'll start.

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VR mi amigo, if you read what I wrote you'll see that I'm not really experiencing any problems in this area. I feel sick to my stomach when I think that people might be accepting something as normal when it doesn't have to be that way. I just have trouble drawing conclusions when I haven't actually done the job myself... so I'm trying to understand how this can be... capisce? And as for parts falling off the machine, they couldn't have been that important now could they?

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Not being a pilot but a wrench, I have not had the opertunity to land a machine and experience this, But in Blue River a few years ago I got the chance to change an Astar drivetrain a 9500 feet after the pilot dipped his tail in the snow. Both tip indicators were fine but the root of one blade cracked over 75% around the blade cuff. The T/R driveshaft had twisted about 270 degrees and the gbx oil looked like metalflake paint. The a/c sat for 2 weeks in weather befor we got to it, so it was full of snow and the engine was frozen solid. I have some pic someware and will post them when I get home. The suprising thing was the tip indicators, NO damage or bending. This happened in light fluffy dry snow.

Why don't you tell the whole story how the pilot was lucky not to crash because if I do recall he got caught in ZERO vis. The approach was good then the fog on departure.

 

Anyone who thinks that touching the tailskid to the ground on landing is normal is nuts, but this is typical of the attitude of some heliski and helilogging and seizmic production pilots who value a few seconds saved over safety every time. They are heroes to their bosses and clients, but the frequent damage and unnecesary repairs to the helicopter and engine, from the overtorques and overloading, are never taken into account. To their bosses this damage is "normal". Also, no one who knows what they are doing flares anywhere near the ground.

Be careful Pointing fingers It will come back to bite you.I have done all those jobs mentioned and I don't think I would ever make a statement like this. You are assuming a lot and we all Know what ASSUME means.

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