Auto Up?

[Plinko]

I guess it boils down to knowing your machine and its limits... It is cool to know what they are capable of outside the normal training regime

[Helilog56]

Only if you try and make them do more than they can. It has happened a couple of times. It is possible that too much confidence can lead you to overextend the capabilities of an aircraft but I can not speak for anyone but myself.

 

We train in practical situations and one is climbing a mountainside facing the mountain with about 2500 fps climb and 50 - 60 kts airspeed.

 

:shock: 2,500 "fps"???? (x60sec/min)=150,000 fpm.....wow, when you exceed a flight manual limitation (2000 fpm)........ you don't kid around,( not overextending the capabilities of the aircraft there)....

[helicopterjim]

:shock: 2,500 "fps"???? (x60sec/min)=150,000 fpm.....wow, when you exceed a flight manual limitation (2000 fpm)........ you don't kid around,( not overextending the capabilities of the aircraft there)....

 

If you read the flight manual it says that climb is restricted to 2000 fpm for normal operations. I choose to interpret that as heli-logging being not normal.

 

(Sometimes it feels like 150,000 fpm. Thanks for noticing my screw up)

[Helilog56]

If you read the flight manual it says that climb is restricted to 2000 fpm for normal operations. I choose to interpret that as heli-logging being not normal.

 

(Sometimes it feels like 150,000 fpm. Thanks for noticing my screw up)

 

So now you raise an interesting point Jim.....Page 11-3 in the limitations section of the flight manual, PROHIBITED OPERATIONS....1. No aerobatic maneuvers permitted. 2. Night flight without cargo rear view mirror cover installed. 3. Maximum rate of climb must be limited to 2000 ft/min. for all normal flight operations. 4. External sling load operations with foll SCAS channel inoperative. 5. Engine starts with rotor brake engaged. Roptor brake application shall be applied only after engine has bee shur down and rotor RPM has decreased to 40% or less.

 

What is considered normal flight operations? I can not find in the flight manual, or any other publication, a list for this. Anyone else know? Is heli-logging a "normal" flight operation for Transwest? Your statement opens up an interesting topic for debate. I have been logging for over 15 years now....I actually consider it a normal flight operation for helicopters........... Thoughts anyone?

[helicopterjim]

There must be something about flying a 214 that is not normal or else they would prohibit rate of climb over 2000 fpm for all operations. Where does it define what is normal? Do I get to define what is normal? Is this one of those judgement calls that a judge could decide you are right or wrong on? Is it at the pilots discretion and he is only wrong when he screws up?

 

Äll I can say is 'whatever'!

[Chopper_Stew]

Has anyone been able to pull this off in a Jetranger or even a Robbie? With the tremendous amount of blade inertia I can understand the mediums being able to pull this off, but could you do it in a smaller machine? Also, does the type of rotor system effect the "increase in altitude auto" I know machines with fully articulated rotor systems auto like a rock, whereas the teetering underslung rotor systems are quite friendly.

[Skids Up]

Had it shown to me in a jetbox.

 

Full into auto, (as I remember) poke the nose to get the speed up, pull the nose up along with collective, (fairly forceful) and ride the wave! You still loose altitude in the long run, as you can't stay up forever, but it can be used to stretch your glide somewhat.

 

And watch out for going "weightless" at the top of the wave, some rotor systems don't like that.... :shock:

 

Don't try it at a low altitude, you may run out of recovery room if things aren't going well....

[Plinko]

Has anyone been able to pull this off in a Jetranger or even a Robbie? With the tremendous amount of blade inertia I can understand the mediums being able to pull this off, but could you do it in a smaller machine? Also, does the type of rotor system effect the "increase in altitude auto" I know machines with fully articulated rotor systems auto like a rock, whereas the teetering underslung rotor systems are quite friendly.

 

I did it in a 500...no inertia in those blades...it all boils down to airspeed I think. If you do not have it when the engine quits do no try to climb...in any machine...you can always trade speed for nr. In the case of the 214..well that might be a different scenario...but I would be hesitant to climb in anything with no airspeed...maybe milk the rpm for a bit longer glide but that is it.

 

I am sure some will argue

Plink

[33InchChord]

So now you raise an interesting point Jim.....Page 11-3 in the limitations section of the flight manual, PROHIBITED OPERATIONS....1. No aerobatic maneuvers permitted. 2. Night flight without cargo rear view mirror cover installed. 3. Maximum rate of climb must be limited to 2000 ft/min. for all normal flight operations. 4. External sling load operations with foll SCAS channel inoperative. 5. Engine starts with rotor brake engaged. Roptor brake application shall be applied only after engine has bee shur down and rotor RPM has decreased to 40% or less.

 

What is considered normal flight operations? I can not find in the flight manual, or any other publication, a list for this. Anyone else know? Is heli-logging a "normal" flight operation for Transwest? Your statement opens up an interesting topic for debate. I have been logging for over 15 years now....I actually consider it a normal flight operation for helicopters........... Thoughts anyone?

 

 

Special condition 29-65-SW-5 as referred to in the Basis of Certification in TCDS H80 (Canada)and H6SW(U.S.) for the 214B relates to the rate of climb restriction in the flight manual. Maybe this can help define 'normal'?

[helicopterjim]

Special condition 29-65-SW-5 as referred to in the Basis of Certification in TCDS H80 (Canada)and H6SW(U.S.) for the 214B relates to the rate of climb restriction in the flight manual. Maybe this can help define 'normal'?

 

What is special condition 29-65-SW-5?