How To Get Rid Of Contrail?

[jetbox]

JetBox: I am begining to think you like to disagree for the sake of disagree'ing. Shades of another person that no longer posts.

Of course I like to disagree, where have you been all this time? But that's entirely besides the point. I've been in the business for over 15 years which I assume entitles me to an opinion just like you and everyone else. In all your travels and vast experience should've learned by now not to brush all pilots, AME's and/or operators with the same brush which is what yourself and John Moore did and that's what I was taking exeption to. It doesn't really matter what you have or haven't done in your long career, not everybody drops their standards and not all operators screw their employees is all I'm tryin to say!

You may have experienced more than most of us but your experience is still just that: YOUR experience!

 

Respectfully disagreeing,

 

Jetbox

[cap]

This is an UPDATE only and not meant to re-enter any discussion on same.

 

 

AS of 1300 hrs CST today, I have been informed that discussions have began regarding "adapting" the New Standards and Regulations to the Canadian scene. As I expected and stated, the rules were transported in their entirety from the operations serviciing oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. They apply to the IFR operations of such firms as Air Logistics, PHI, Era, etc. etc. and the VFR portion applies to the LongRangers and such that operate from one rig to another because they are based on one of the many rigs in the Gulf.

 

The "safety" intent is not in question, but in order to obtain that level of safety, it makes most of the Canadian operations unworkable, whereas they may work ideally in the Gulf under different requirements, topography and weather conditions. In essence, the ultimate in safety can be reached by increasing all limits for everything , but at some point it makes the operation needing to be performed unworkable with avaition support......and then other means need to be found and they may not be available or are "cost prohibitive" in the Canadian locale.

 

Results of the "adaptation" of the rules to Canadian operations will be known on or about January 15th. As a side note, the various oil companies with HQ's in the US were contacted, but Contrail is totally unknown in Calgary unless those companies effected are American owned or controlled. The foregoing is an update and information obtained this afternnon. It is also only a repeat of imformation passed-on to me from a source very well placed.

[Iceman]

Sorry to hi-jack the tread again Cap but I might add I am very proud to be working for my employer but that dosent change the fact we are all underpaid in this industry.

[cap]

Iceman -----I can reply to that also. I TOO am happy to be working for the employer that I am and can say honestly, that the vast majority of those I have worked for I would do so again. There are also the others that I've worked for, but those we will never get rid of and they exist in every industry that I am familiar with. It's like anything else......."caveat emptor"

 

Underpaid? In October if 1968 a Bell JetRanger was selling for $265,000 USD and I was making $17,000/yr and the a/c got $265/hr. At the same time a Bell 47 G4 was chartering-out in the far East for $265 US/hr. According to StatsCan at that time, anyone earning as much as me was in the top 11% of Canadian wage-earners nationwide. Last price I heard on a JetRanger from Miribel was $1.23M and goes for as low as $499/hr that I personally know of, all the way up to $650-$700 and not many Canadian R/W pilots are in the top 11% of Canadian wage-earners. Do the math........."the wheels fell off" a long time ago........AND it's exactly the same situation on the F/W side. Want to charter an a/c for a cheap rate worldwide?.........charter in Canada 'baby' because we hold that "title" now.

[Phil Croucher]

Well, that just says it all, doesn't it? You'd think that they would check first, wouldn't you? And if they knew the industry that well, they wouldn't need to check!

 

Phil

[skyward]

Underpaid? In October if 1968 a Bell JetRanger was selling for $265,000 USD and I was making $17,000/yr and the a/c got $265/hr. At the same time a Bell 47 G4 was chartering-out in the far East for $265 US/hr. According to StatsCan at that time, anyone earning as much as me was in the top 11% of Canadian wage-earners nationwide. Last price I heard on a JetRanger from Miribel was $1.23M and goes for as low as $499/hr that I personally know of, all the way up to $650-$700 and not many Canadian R/W pilots are in the top 11% of Canadian wage-earners. Do the math........."the wheels fell off" a long time ago........AND it's exactly the same situation on the F/W side. Want to charter an a/c for a cheap rate worldwide?.........charter in Canada 'baby' because we hold that "title" now

 

Extremely well said Cap. I think that the rotary industry has become the mirror image of the fixed wing business. Like they say "Welcome to Canada! Land of "Work for free", home of "Can't afford the grave".

[PerfectTrack]

isn't this just a case of supply and demand. everyone was so attracted to what everyone had back then. who wouldn't want to be in the top 11%? as we've found out, lots did, and the market is oversupplied and the wages etc show that. Cull the herd and you'll see the market value go up.

[hurler]

Since ths topic has started I have recieved a few PM's on the matter, most disagreeing with the contrail initiative, the stats are interesting on the poll and suggest overwhelmingly that it is the job of HAC to deal the death blow to contrail. Eventually they wil self distruct as Cap has suggested , but who wants to even go a season?

 

It has also been suggested that I just go sit on the guy !

 

Wonder what TC thinks of the whole matter ? Anybody heard anything from any of the local TC inspectors .

 

Jet box you make some very valid points, we are horribly underpaid even when you consider the training costs.

 

Gee wonder why the companies never want a union, they may have to start paying pilots really what the job is worth given risk etc. :shock:

[Frequent Flyer]

Good Day to all,

 

I have been following this topic from its inception and I find the whole thing quite interesting. I wonder what would happen if I was to post a topic that began with " How do we get rid of Canadian Helicopters or Heli Quest or even Mustang? " Dont get me wrong. I am not at all defending Mr Van Humbeck, but to even suggest running a man out of business because we dont agree with his practices sounds a little wrong to me. Granted many of his suggestions are not very practicle in our industry but it comes down to educating both him and the client as opposed to running him out of town. I think a major issue that companies like contrail should be attacking are the rates on machinery. How can a major company like the ones Brian deals with impose all these " Safety" restrictions and yet still use machinery with hourly rates that are way below where they should be. Its the same right across the industry. Everyone wants safety and experience but they are not willing to pay for it. This is what the consultants and so called experts of our business should be attacking. Unfortunately I cant see the solution to the problem because there will always be operators who are willing to go cheaper in order to get the work. Lets not forget though, the client always pays for it in the long run. Whether its an extra 0.3 here or there the operator still gets the rate they need. Thats the nature of the beast.

[Phil Croucher]

Good points, FF and well made.

 

Phil