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Unionize The Whole Damm Industry


UNIONIZE THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY  

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Plink, are you really that ignoant? Or did this thread catch you at a bad time?

 

AR

 

 

AR

 

First off when you call someone ignorant..you should learn how to spell it first! Second of all...it amazes me how much whining goes on here. If you don't think your job is secure and you your pay isn't high enough..then find something else to do!

 

Ask the GM workers in Oshawa how great their union is when they all lose their jobs in a a few years.. If I was an owner operator and had someone tell me what I had to pay my staff I would just lock the doors. If you are any good at your job then you should garner a wage that reflects that already. If not...well maybe you do need a union!

 

I bet you are voting for the NDP aren't you AR :up:

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Plinko....If you are an owner/operator You are the staff

 

 

Ah thanks for pointing that out Elvis...I am sure that there are no owner/operators that employ other personel... How does this sound? "If I owned a helicopter company I would not want to be told what I must pay my staff" Is that a little clearer?

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Plink,

 

Well maybe if the working conditions in the industry were monitored with the zeal you display for tyoing errrorrs, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Your wit and razor like spelling prowess are truly daunting... Give me a break, are you an adult?

 

I have no trouble with what I get paid, or the security of said job, but there are many abuses that go on in our industry, and some type of representation is in order, probably an [/b]association. The treatment most low-timers get is appalling, the quality of machinery, and number of days worked really need an oversight commitee made up of someone other than TC, because they don't give a ####. Not to mention a conflict resolution system etc etc.

 

Let me guess, you're applying for American citizenship so you can vote Republican... Gotta make sure that when they're down you keep 'em there eh? I know nobody needs to tell you what to do because you've got it all figured out right? Well maybe if you spent a bit more time sharing your infinite wisdom with the rest of us, instead of congratulating yourself on catching typing errors, you could contribute a bit more to the industry. I think I know where you work come to think of it, and if you don't work there maybe you should.

 

Oh, and I'm a Green Party kind of guy... :punk:

 

.enparty.ca/]http://www.greenparty.ca/[/url] ;)

 

AR

Oh, and I vote No on the poll to a Union

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I'm not a member of the group north of the boarder, but my vote for this poll is NO, just take a look at the mechanics union (engineers for nort of the boarder) of Northwest airline mechanics here in Minnesota, they ALL lost their jobs, yes some crossed the line and went back to work. but most of them are now looking for work else where, as their union was not strong enough to overtake the company demands to cut expenses or justify paying what was being asked.

from everything I've read so far the VFR pilots need to form an association of some sort to create a coalition that will provide a platform from which they will have a voice that is heard throughout the country. as it has been posted so many times, the rates are too low for what is done in comparison(sp?) to the rest of the world. if you are to make a change in your jobs it is up to you as a collective group to come up with the pressure against the operaters to provide the appropriate wages and conditions that you deem as justifiable for what is being done.

 

my 2 cents

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Plink,

 

Well maybe if the working conditions in the industry were monitored with the zeal you display for tyoing errrorrs, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Your wit and razor like spelling prowess are truly daunting... Give me a break, are you an adult?

 

I have no trouble with what I get paid, or the security of said job, but there are many abuses that go on in our industry, and some type of representation is in order, probably an [/b]association. The treatment most low-timers get is appalling, the quality of machinery, and number of days worked really need an oversight commitee made up of someone other than TC, because they don't give a ####. Not to mention a conflict resolution system etc etc.

 

Let me guess, you're applying for American citizenship so you can vote Republican... Gotta make sure that when they're down you keep 'em there eh? I know nobody needs to tell you what to do because you've got it all figured out right? Well maybe if you spent a bit more time sharing your infinite wisdom with the rest of us, instead of congratulating yourself on catching typing errors, you could contribute a bit more to the industry. I think I know where you work come to think of it, and if you don't work there maybe you should.

 

Oh, and I'm a Green Party kind of guy... :punk:

 

.enparty.ca/]http://www.greenparty.ca/[/url] ;)

 

AR

Oh, and I vote No on the poll to a Union

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Plink,

 

Well maybe if the working conditions in the industry were monitored with the zeal you display for tyoing errrorrs, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Your wit and razor like spelling prowess are truly daunting... Give me a break, are you an adult?

 

I have no trouble with what I get paid, or the security of said job, but there are many abuses that go on in our industry, and some type of representation is in order, probably an [/b]association. The treatment most low-timers get is appalling, the quality of machinery, and number of days worked really need an oversight commitee made up of someone other than TC, because they don't give a ####. Not to mention a conflict resolution system etc etc.

 

Let me guess, you're applying for American citizenship so you can vote Republican... Gotta make sure that when they're down you keep 'em there eh? I know nobody needs to tell you what to do because you've got it all figured out right? Well maybe if you spent a bit more time sharing your infinite wisdom with the rest of us, instead of congratulating yourself on catching typing errors, you could contribute a bit more to the industry. I think I know where you work come to think of it, and if you don't work there maybe you should.

 

Oh, and I'm a Green Party kind of guy... :punk:

 

AR

 

I was by no means congratulating myself on catching your spelling mistake. Just making the point that the word you chose to describe me as being stupid was spelled incorrectly. Kinda sucks the wind out of your sails so to speak. Maybe you were just in to much of a rush to spell check ;)

 

 

I do agree with you that there are some areas of the industry that could definitely be addressed and cleaned up. Unfortunately as long as there are low timers looking for work and willing to do anything to build time, there will be operators exploiting them...association or not. Is this wrong absolutely! As for quality of machinery...well I would not fly something that is not airworthy. I would hope that everyone agrees that there is no job worth your life or livelihood. Tour length...well if you do not like the tours...work somewhere else. You make it sound like there is no choice out there. Unfortuantely in any industry one has to make sacrafices to get ahead. That is a fact of life. Maybe there is a dream job that you just make tons of money and never have to put in the time...oh wait I think it is called the lottery.

 

 

I have to say your resentment towards me is interesting...where is it you think I work and if you are correct why do you think I should work there. Do you see that outfit as poison to the industry? If so how come? Did you get turned down for a job there at some time? Do tell!

 

I believe there is an association. (HAC) That does meet and discuss and lobby to make changes in the industry. Changes for the good of all operators...as it is made up of said people. Does it speak exclusively on behalf of pilots and engineers...No. Is enough being done...doubtful...but I would love if you could enlighten us with a solution.

 

I am sure everyone with a licence that ever found work in the business has gotten the shaft at some point. Unfortunately the majority of us do this job because we love it and are willing to make sacrifices in order to succeed.

 

As for you supporting the green party..it makes sense..they kinda stand for nothing...no real platform or agenda...just a big hug for everyone. In fact they might want to ban helicopters because they are instrumental in the logging and oil industry..oh and they pollute too! There is some serious forward thinking!! Bravo!

 

Still waiting to hear on my green card...hopefully it will be in the mail before the next election!

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Plink

 

Let's just put it this way, I'm getting pretty sick of the "grab whatever I can" mentality that is surrounding out current election - everybody wants to get ahead and nobody want to give up anything to make the overall quality of life better. Same seems to go for our industry. So when this topic came up, it fast-tracked me to annoyed mode.

 

I digress.

 

As for me, I stand for what I believe in, ie. good machinery, good and fair pay, a positive work environment, and a balance between working my a$$ off, and having a home life. I have quit jobs because of this in the past, given up management positions because of it, and will not hesitate to do so again in the future if required to. The reason we need an association is that many pilots and engineers will not stand up for these things, they will break every law in the book to make a buck, and many operators are more than willing to let them do it.

 

If there was ever an "individual," it's me, believe me! But, I do recognise that things need to progress, not regress, and that in order for that to happen, we cannot accept conditions being set by the lowest common denominator, and we cannot ALWAYS put out own interests first. An association lobbying HAC(which is an operators association only, for their benefit only) for better standards, and minimum standards, is required. This may mean that a pilot can refuse a machine or weather or customer, and know that a co-worker will not take the trip anyway. You get the idea.

 

Now, that said, I realize that most of the big companies in Canada are very good at maintaining reasonable standards, I see it everyday and am thankful for it. The problem lies in the medium to small outfits, the ones that allow a company culture exist where fudging logbooks, breaking duty as soon as there's a busy day, flying overwieght, pushing weather, etc etc persists.

 

The outfit I spoke of shall reamain annonomys for obvious reasons. I worked for them, was sucked in during the nice slow winter months by shiney machines, talk of "respecting the CARS," and a "family" type company culture. As soon as it got busy, duty was broken EVERY day, the talk of "respecting CARS" went out the window, and the working atmosphere became poison. I would never go back, regardless of money. They had a low-timer work for FREE for two weeks, after promising him a job for months... It was more thier right-wing, red-neck, "us" first politics I was refering to earlier. Us being the "haves" of the industy.

 

I work as hard as I can, I always put my best effort forward, work within the rules and laws governing our indusrty, and because of it have been very forunate with my career. So I resent the implication that, to paraphrase a number of peoples posts, "those who work the hardest will get ahead." Many of those who "work the hardest," do so in the face of CARS, safe flying practices, and are rewarded by the operator - that is not good if we're trying to raise a standard. As you said, no job is worth dying for.

 

As for the Green Party, well, that's tongue-in-cheek. I don't vote anymore because I'm completely disillusioned with so-called Democracy. Whether it's the current version of the Liberals, Mulroney, Bush, Regan, Thatcher, or any other you can name, they're all out for themselves, their friends in indusrty, and their legacy - so I refrain. The system is 200years out of date.

 

You said in one of your posts that if a person is good at thier job, they will get paid accordingly. In a perfect world, I agree. Unfortunately, the definition of "good at your job" can, and does include breaking the laws, working for cheap, flying inadequet machinery, cutting the boss's lawn, working 60 days straight etc. I realise that's probably not what you meant when you wrote it, but from many operators points of view, those ARE the good pilots/engeneers.

 

That's the most I've typed at one go ever! Anyway, it's not a problem that's going anywhere soon, so I assume we'll all be at this for a while. Depending on where we are in the indusrty, we all have different points of view.

 

AR

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