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Enough Of Unions!


maxtorc
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I can't see unions ever working, in the helicopter industry in canada.

 

What I do believe would work and benifit both owner/operators as well as employees, would be an association with a standardized renumeration system.

 

Example; Base salary set for amount of total flight time, with add ons such as 1.5% for IFR 2IC, 3% IFR Captain, 1% Mountain, 10% longline (precision), 5% longline (production), 20% base manager, 15% project manager, Etc.

 

Now these values and examples have been quickly pulled from my @#$ so don't take offence, only for discussion.

 

With this structure we will take care of many problems, right down to "Contrail", as the operator would be influenced to use a lower time pilot (due to basic economics) and put the pressure to companies that low time pilots with proper training are as effective in the "patch" as any higher time pilot, therefore increasing their profit margin.

 

The operator will have a known structured payroll, fuel and maintence being a constant. therefore the bidding will hopefully come up closer to where it belongs.

I know it wouldn't be quick and painless, We should stand together and offset the costs to the appropriate people, (the customer).

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ok, hypothetically speaking, say you have two pilots, both with 5000hrs. One is an ace with a longline and very intelligent, the other, a dumbass who couldn't wiggle his bearpaws free of a mouse nest....do you think they should be paid equally?

 

can we have a sliding percentage scale based on qualifications and ability? cause if we can, isn't that whats out there already?

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If he can't do the job, then he wouldn't qualify for the add on!

 

I don't think there would be a need for a sliding scale, it would have been taken into account with the add ons. Now keep in mind I didn't put alot of thought into these values, let alone the description of add ons.

 

If you think we as Canadian pilots already work on an equal footing for qualifications and ability, I recommend that you look into the pay scale past Ontario and further east.

 

It seems like supply and demand is the law that regulates Canadian pilot salaries. (don't get me wrong I am conservative, and believe that is necessary in any healthy economy). But the world is getting smaller, you will surely notice it when you work with someone on the same job who is making more due to the geographic location he was sent from. ie. may I make reference to the phone booth base topic!

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Red dog

 

Just got back home after a nice little trip up the coast only to find the expected Jetbox reply ( on the closed thread), For the most part I just ignor these folk, who have to get personal over an interesting subject where persons are allowed to voice opinions. As witnessed time and again,its the standard industry reaction of the industry deficient.

 

But for the fun of it! I AM EMPLOYED DIPSHIIT! :shock:

 

Still say we need a union, an association had the mechanism really has no teeth.

 

Cheers

 

H ;)

 

Perfect track

 

Just to make a point on your comparison, the most likely or industry accepted senario is that the " intelligent" pilot would be unemployed more often, where as the dumbass would have fewer difficulties and ask less questions and speak less (which is what the industry advocates) So being inteligent is a handycap, just look at the success Jetbox has had!

 

HAHAHAH :rolleyes:

 

H ;)

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Maxtorc --------"fuel and maintenance being a constant".........do I understand you correctly there? I don't believe you, me or any operator can call the price of fuel as a "constant" anywhere. The cost of parts coming over the 49th parallel moves in direct proportion to the value of the Canadian dollar and we have scant or no control of that.

 

Like your ideas a lot and didn't mean to be "picky" and/or perhaps I misunderstood your syntax. Remember at all times though, that those items you mentioned are definitely possible and aren't original either. Okanagan Helicopters had many of the same for years as did others.......and the odd one still does, BUT you still gotta have so much money coming-in, in order to have so much money going out.......and back to "Rates" we return again. You can't build a good house without a strong foundation and we got no "re-bar" in the one we got now and the cracks are getting wider all the time. It's sometimes forgotten by many that owners are not involved in this business to make sure WE have employment and benefits. There are bad owners out there and there always will be, no matter what scheme you put in place, BUT there's very little "wiggle-room" left for many of the good owners that mean well and truly appreciate those they employ. It makes me shake my head sometimes as to why some of the good owners even bother to stay in the business anymore because 1-3% return on their investment must be making their accountants just shake their heads also.........and I wouldn't doubt that even a 1-3% return has been nothing but a "pipe-dream" on more than one occasion for them.

 

Keep the thought though because I've worked under many of the Payscale items that you mention and they are definitely nice. To me at least, the "acknowledgement" of your worthiness, added responsibilites and experience to the given company was the main item for me and the amounts given were actually secondary.

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Red dog

 

Just got back home after a nice little trip up the coast only to find the expected Jetbox reply ( on the closed thread), For the most part I just ignor these folk, who have to get personal over an interesting subject where persons are allowed to voice opinions. As witnessed time and again,its the standard industry reaction of the industry deficient.

 

But for the fun of it! I AM EMPLOYED DIPSHIIT! :shock:

 

Still say we need a union, an association had the mechanism really has no teeth.

 

Cheers

 

H ;)

 

Perfect track

 

Just to make a point on your comparison, the most likely or industry accepted senario is that the " intelligent" pilot would be unemployed more often, where as the dumbass would have fewer difficulties and ask less questions and speak less (which is what the industry advocates) So being inteligent is a handycap, just look at the success Jetbox has had!

 

HAHAHAH :rolleyes:

 

H ;)

 

Sticks down guys ! :down: Slagging won't be tolerated here. Consider yourself warned...

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Cap... I was trying to make the point that fuel and maintence were a constant, by that I meant throughout the industry. What you are paying the next guy is paying (or should be).

I realize there are many unforseen costs involved in business, with this topic I was trying to get everyone involved, bring up the tariffs. Let Ma and Pa's business succeed while the employees enjoy the benifits from years of hard work, lengthy times away and years of study.

Is it fair for someone to go from the top (pay as well) of the VFR world and enter into the IFR side while having to trade "income for experience". On the other hand is it fair for pilots to demand higher wages, when Ma and Pa's contract isn't up for renewal until next year?

Can't we have a reasonable discussion with all invoved to improve the situation. I hope so!

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Cap... I was trying to make the point that fuel and maintence were a constant, by that I meant throughout the industry. What you are paying the next guy is paying (or should be).

 

?????

 

It's usually not even the same price at 2 different airport.

 

Or order a barrel of fuel and see who's paying the same? Fuel companies can't even agree.

 

Nice if it would work, but it won't, not in our lifetime...

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