Ntsb Wants Terrain Avoidance In Helicopters

[cap]

From the official NTSB reports that I've read, THIS is what they are recommending to the FAA:

 

1) That it apply to ALL a/c carrying SIX OR MORE passengers.

 

2) That it apply to ALL operations and NOT JUST IFR operations.

 

3) and nowhere in that report does it state "for the GOM or over-water operations only".

 

Perhaps I've missed something in those reports so far, but until somebody reads differently, then that's what the NTSB is passing-on to the FAA "for their consideration". Other than that, the reported cost for each a/c in the GOM is supposedly a reported $40,000 USD for that installation.

 

I personally have no problem with anything that will make our life even easier on the flightdeck because the advent of the GPS did just that. What I do have a problem with is, like the GPS, "terrain avoidance" instruments are JUST another aide to safety and navigation and aren't the "be all and end all" of the safety concern. The bottom line on that accident in the GOM, as far as what is known to-date, was "pilot inattentiveness on the flightdeck' and that very thing can only be corrected with re-training or a "slap upside the head" by the guy sitting across from you. If NEITHER one is paying attention, then you better dream-up another instrument for some other flight scenario because they're an accident/incident looking for a place to happen. Will all this come here to visit us........where do you think Contrail's ideas came from? I trust you don' believe they all originated in Canada? I'd suggest we all pay attention to this accident whether we agree or not with the NTSB because the insurance companies sure will.........and the oil and gas folks like Haliburton et al will too because it was their employees that died on that flight.

[DGP]

I would go to (407 guestion) and look at the dash in the 417...thanhs from 407 driver ...I think that this type of equipment is what the faa has in mind...this is available in all 206 and 407 models right from the factory.... :up:

[Reddog]

Reddog, I appreciate your "definitions" but I am not confused..you have not answered my question...how does the necessity of a "terrain awareness" system benifit a vfr pilot flying a mission with multiple landings, moves, etc.

 

I'm going to trust that you are not being obtuse just to yank my chain.

 

A terrain alerting device, as we have agreed, alerts you to reduced ground clearance and it's uses are only limited by your imagination. Granted in a limited Day VFR role where your head is out of the cockpit most of the time it not as useful to you as it is to a night Ambulance driver. At the very least you can set it to your prefered autorotation flare height where it will give you an exact height AGL on your way down when the sh*t hits the fan.

[Plinko]

I'm going to trust that you are not being obtuse just to yank my chain.

 

A terrain alerting device, as we have agreed, alerts you to reduced ground clearance and it's uses are only limited by your imagination. Granted in a limited Day VFR role where your head is out of the cockpit most of the time it not as useful to you as it is to a night Ambulance driver. At the very least you can set it to your prefered autorotation flare height where it will give you an exact height AGL on your way down when the sh*t hits the fan.

 

Well in my limited experience, a terrain alerting device would not be of much use. I do not fly at night...or offshore. I have been known to get a little sleepy at times though. If you are flying Day VFR and it stays VFR then all of the cues to your proximity to the ground should come from outside. (in my opinion) One should not have to rely on a warning or alerting system to determine altitude. So I do agree with outfitting aircraft with them..but to say that they are required to add a safety element to all missions is crazy. Nothing beats good decision making and awareness.

 

As for setting it to the proper flare height for an auto. Good luck with that. I think I am going to stick with good judgement based on the factors I am dealt in order to flare at the proper time. I wonder how many successful autorotations there would be if everyone waited for the light or horn to go off telling them that now would be a good time to pull back on the stick.

[STICKJIGGLER]

Plink, God knows we love ya man but who really gives a shite.

 

They want terrain avoidance, ejection seats or even sexy stews' wheelin drink carts around on every flight I say YEAH BABY ! bring it on.

 

We of course will have to increase the tarrifs to pay for all the window dressings but again who cares.

 

The Pilots will be the last to be consulted when it comes fixing what is broken in our industry.

 

So just "peace out" get shagged and go back to work dude.

 

Jiggler

 

Hey brother, you are dangerously close to becoming a regular on this forum. Just like PinkPuppy and his pals. Over.

[Reddog]

I wonder how many successful autorotations there would be if everyone waited for the light or horn to go off telling them that now would be a good time to pull back on the stick.

 

See, you do misunderstand the use of technology. A RadAlt is not there to tell you what to do. It is just an aid to warn you that you are passing a height AGL that you set. It is just one piece of information, in this case, to a successfull autorotation.

[sharkbait]

Jeeze Red Dawg - I'm a'guess'n deze good folks ain't never done none of doze IF and R outoromotations using that there Raidare Altemeteeter thingamabober. :up:

Lissen-Waitin-Hopen-flaren-pullen-flogging at its' best.

[Plinko]

See, you do misunderstand the use of technology. A RadAlt is not there to tell you what to do. It is just an aid to warn you that you are passing a height AGL that you set. It is just one piece of information, in this case, to a successfull autorotation.

 

Thanks Tips.. I am perfectly aware of how a rad alt works Reddog..

Just so I understand correctly...every flare in an autorotation should commence at the same altitude? Wow..I have clearly not be paying attention! I suppose they should all happen at 60kts as well?

 

Anyways...as the Jigglemeister says...who gives a sh%t. It doesn't really matter...it will happen or not...with no influence coming from the flight decks around the country. I will just continue to to my job winging it until the safety devices are installed. And god forbid I have to do an auto without a rad alt.

 

Peace out

 

Plink

 

Oh and Jiggles...We had a "No Pants Snow Dance" last night.. 10 strong..you would have been proud! Work sucks!

And thank you for slappin me back to reality :up:

[Reddog]

Plinko you are reading but not comprehending but who cares. Jigger is right. When have we ever had any input into what goes into our aircraft?

[Plinko]

Plinko you are reading but not comprehending but who cares. Jigger is right. When have we ever had any input into what goes into our aircraft?

 

I comprehend just fine Reddog.... I also know that the best safety device I have available to me are my eyes and experience. As stated before..and the point of this thread... VFR ops should not require terrain avoidance...would it be of assistance from time to time..absolutely. But not neccessary to complete a successful VFR mission. Anyway..the horse is dead.. Until the rules change again we will all just have hope that we can perform our duties without relying on a system that distracts us from what is really important...looking out the window.

Did I mention I am talking about Day VFR operations???

 

P