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I have considerable concern for my grandson as he struggles to make his way as a helicopter pilot. My issue is with the culture of helicopter pilots, which I do not believe is either civilized or safe


This quote is from Charles W.


Quote John Moore:


" We all know that helicopter pilots in particular push weather horribly and will use any excuse for ‘giving it a try to see what happens’."


John I'm not politically correct and quite frankly I feel that anyone who makes such a blanket statement deserves a swift kick in the nuts.


I'm easy to find if you don't like my attitude.




The unfortunate truth is that I lost both testicles to cancer some years ago so if you kick me there it is not going to hurt much. My experience has been that helicopter pilots in particular are really quite cavalier about flying in bad weather. Choose to disregard my observations if you wish but there is really no need to threaten physical violence.


This quote is from 412driver.


first off mister moore...that area of the world is devoid of anything remotely "built up"


secondly, as i like to maintain somewhat of a level head and keep away from from bashing of any type, i have only one thing to say.......



i'm surprised that you can see daylight cuz your head is so far up your f#$%*g @ss you probably haven't seen sunshine in years! were the H#*& do you come off?


"It is simply beyond me to understand how the heads of helicopter pilots work. There is no logic in there."


come round the hangar anytime and i'll explain it to you. helilog56 didn't go far enough, you now have ZERO credibility (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbdown.gif)


lord tunderin' what an idiot............. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)


One might conclude from this profane outburst that someone has an anger management problem. 412driver is one of the few who have identified themselves and also for whom he works. I wonder just how pleased his employer is about this little tantrum. I don’t think it reflects too well on the author. Also, you spelled f#$%*g wrong.


There is no academic requirement to be a helicopter pilot. Quite a few of those who now manage helicopter companies were once pilots and though they may be adequate as pilots, they probably lack management expertise. It is a classic case of the Peter Principle in action. It states that people tend to be promoted to their level of incompetence.


I always felt that engineers had a lot more savvy than pilots did. At least they had some formal class room training before being licensed.


You guys should take a good hard look at yourselves. This is 2006 not 1956. I think you are living in the past. You have some glorified ideal of the swashbuckling helicopter pilot that you are struggling to perpetuate, the man that flies by the seat of his pants, who has some imagined sixth sense that keeps him alive, who eschews the advantages of modern technology. It is a dangerous way to live.


I find the existence of the List of Culls disturbing. It may even be that this thing has been formalized into a written document. What must one have done to warrant being listed? What must one do to be struck off? Would it not be proper to advise those who are on it?


I also wonder how many identities have been divulged. Supposedly this is not done unless a libel has occurred, but I can see some individuals or companies being so incensed by what some have said that the posters have been revealed. If so, would it not be decent to advise those who have been exposed?

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don't take the rants of a few so called professionals to lable the whole industry. I know of some wonderfull very compasionate and intelligent pilots in this industry. They won't get into it on forums like this because they don't want to "have a battle of wits with unarmed men". Remember the people who are truly happy don't complaing.

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Guest bag swinnger

Well Mr Moore, I see 2 interesting points in your post.


1) You are not very well liked!


2) There sure is a lot of colourfull characters in aviation


I wonder who your grandson would rather be like?

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Man...........What Crap!


Well, I've been flying a helicopter for 15 years now, learned a few tricks from other pilots and shown a few pilots a trick of the trade as well. I don't believe that I have made any emenies along the way, only an ex wife! but rather bonded with fellow pilots and engineers along the journey.


Maybe one should properly educate themselves prior to posting such crap in this forum!

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The culture you refer to does not apply exclusively to helicopter pilots - as I've said before in another thread, it spreads to fixed wing as well, and to other countries, although it's true to say that Canada seems to have more than its fair share. Witness the Beaver pilots who continually crash in awful weather and are subsequently found to be overweight (the aeroplanes, not the pilots!)


The problem of management not being trained for the job has been there for ever - I wrote a book for those people 30 years ago. When you stop the practice of appointing some Chief Pilots because you can't think of anything else to do with them, that would be a good start. You need people in that job who are going to support their pilots against the expectations that customers have been allowed to gain.


However, there are more good than bad people in this industry, and the best thing you can do for your grandson is not to curse the darkness, but light a candle - give him enough life skills to be able to stick up for himself, not accept peer pressure, become a competent manager and hopefully get rid of the dinosaur thinking that has become so prevalent in certain areas, and which unfortunately keeps getting passed on.



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"412driver is one of the few who have identified themselves and also for whom he works. I wonder just how pleased his employer is about this little tantrum. I don’t think it reflects too well on the author"


first off, my boss is very pleased as i'm one of those guys that gets the job done! must be because he has told me i am the HIGHEST paid Class 2 instructor in canada! :up:


secondly, i don't hide behind a "handle" and then throw the s#@t. if it's coming from me, well you know who is throwing it!


i have considerable concern for your grandson as well................. <_<

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I have the feeling he and his grandson are one in the same. Look at his past drivel, I mean post, and substitute the phrase List of Culls with Black Book. Then ask who is the only other person in the history of this forum to go on and on and on about this phantom "book"?


He's been banned so many times he's running out of friend's computers to post with, hence to often great time gaps between his posts or even his visits. Also why any challenges towards him go unanswered... he can't respond from his own computer at home. Shucks. :rolleyes:


So just sit back and relax. He's probably at home right now writting down his next grand opus of a post that will come in a month or two. Can't wait either, they're sure good for a laugh. :up:

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John Moore ------- I see that you use the term "pilots" and that therefore means ALL pilots.


I've worked with many geologists over my career. I've seen them find out from a hotel switchboard operator how many lines there were out of the hotel. I've been with them on staking claims when the first thing they've did was tie-up ALL of those lines so that their competition couldn't phone out their claims. I've see other guests relegated to using lines outside that hotel for a whole day because of those inconsiderate geologists. I've borne witness to geologists "stretching the truth", both pro and con to serve their government masters concerning certain large projects commencing or being "snuffed" to serve political ends. I've also witnessed geologists "lean hard" on young pilots to go into places and situations where they shouldn't have been, just so they didn't have to walk toom far.


I also understand from a previous post of yours Mr. Moore, that you also happen to be a geologist. I will therefore assume that you are also like the geologist(S) that I mentioned above. Since you are therefore of the same character as those mentioned in the foregoing paragraph, I must tell you that I don't associate with such people. I have therefore given you more than you deserve when I give your comments some "dignity" with this reply.


You and I have now determined that ALL pilots or the majority are as you described and that ALL or the majority of geologists are as I have just described. You should therefore enjoy this forum very much because you are mixing with your own kind.


These comments are made by someone who earned his MbA the hard and very long way and I have no need to resort to four-letter words to describe my distaste and scorn for your comments. I have all the ability in the world to use other means to show my disgust. For example,I might even ask you if your mother and father were married or not.

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Helicopters and those who fly, maintain and support them are the back bone of many industry's in this country. The people are solid and so is the equipment. We fly in some of the harshest conditions in the world in a safe and professional manner, period. Anyone who says differently is either not familiar with the industry or was not able to make the cut. We may have our differences and opinions but as a community the majority go out of their way the help and support each other and I think this a true sign of what professionalism is. Keep up the good work folks! :up:

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