How Silly Are We?

[Frequent Flyer]

Hi Guys and Girls,

 

I have just been chatting with some friends who have been working in Australia this summer and I was amazed at some of the figures being thrown around for charter and pilot rates down there. By comparison we really are close too the bottom of the scale on the money end of things. It a little disheartening really. Here are a few of the major things we picked up on.

 

1) All Australian Operators that we spoke to bill on Engine time. Not Hobbs time. This gives the operators a 15 to 20% margin for their operations. Be it Government or private sector it all begins when you hit the starter. The way it should be.

 

2) Most charter rates are at least 10 to 20% higher than that of Canada. a) Robinson 44 - $820 / hour. Bell 206 - $1100 / hour Bell 205 - 13 - $3000 / hour

Bell212 - $3300 / hour

 

3) I have the pay scales from two different companies down here. Both in Fire fighting operations with one branching out into the Heli Logging market overseas. The full time guys do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. With some doing 4 weeks on and 2 off. What money I hear you ask? $ 450 a day and $150 an hour. This is no bull@#$*.

 

So my question here is an age old one. Did we miss the boat or do we think as an industry we can pull it together and start making what we should be making. Not just me as a pilot but the companies that employ us. Your thaughts would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

[Skidz]

Are your rates in CDN dollars or AUD dollars ?

 

1.00 CAD = 1.20803 AUD

 

So,

 

RH44 @ 820/hr AUD = ~ 680/hr CDN

BH06 @ 1100/hr AUD =~ 910/hr CDN

BH05 @ 3000/hr AUD =~ 2483/hr CDN

BH12 @ 3300/hr AUD =~ 2731/hr CDN

 

There rates do appear somewhat higher than the rates I've seen here. So how much competition is there between companies down there ? Are there too few machines vs the work available ? It's all a matter of supply and demand...

[beltdrive]

Austria.....

 

As 350 B3 45 euro a minute

BH 05 54 euro a minute

As 350 N with doctor and Sar teck 74 Euro a minute

[dammyneckhurts]

I agree, pay is way too low in Canada. An experienced driver in Canada should easily be in the range of 130-160 K. But we are ruled by supply and demand of course, too many helicopters in this country!

[Frequent Flyer]

I have to admit the rates are in Australian dollars. But if you look back at the last 6 months we were almost dollard for dollar prior to Christmas. The exchange rate does go back and forth but rarely in the last 10 years has it been any better than 85c on the dollar. Either way the fact that they run on engine time makes a big difference aswell. Not to mention the pay for drivers.

[Blackmac]

HELICOPTER ENGINEERS AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION, CANADA

NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION BUSINESS NO.86766 2207

 

On the 100th anniversary of powered flight, (the 17th day of December, 2003) the Helicopter Engineers and Pilots Association, Canada received its Charter to form a non-profit organization seeking to improve the profession of helicopter engineers and pilots as well as the Canadian helicopter industry as a whole.

We will do so through industry lobbying, for the promotion of safety research and advancements and to seek improvements in engineering, pilot, employer and customer/ client relations.

 

A few people took the bull by the horn and formed an association to try and address the situation that was quite obvious and were shat upon in great turds.

 

All though I agree with you, nobody in the industry has the guts to do anything

about it, so I'm trying to figure out what the post is all about.

 

People are still trying to find out why CHL went union with the Air Ambulance and what there gripe's were all about.

 

Get real, why the **** should they tell you anything, when you are nothing but shyte disturbers and afraid to do anything about your situations.

 

Now we will get all the good guys that only think of themselves and how good they have it, hurayyyyyyy.

 

HAC can't agree on anything, how the **** to you expect the rest of the industry to agree.

 

Now lets hear it from all the people that have it so good.

 

 

Cheers, Don

[PerfectTrack]

"when you are nothing but shyte disturbers and afraid to do anything about your situations"

 

sorry, but i fought for what I believed in and my current situation. I think I won because HEPAC failed, even if only temporarily.

[hurler]

BlackMack

 

Your valiant effort to establish a mechanism to fight on behalf of employees and better wages etc. fell on def ears due the very simple fact that the word union or association scares the **** out of most operators. When you have the the eastern Czar self insuring his own fleet and every small operator fighting to compete with several giants that have economies of scale advantage the hope that any tarrif rate increase would transfer down to the pilot and engineer is only but a foolish thought that underestimates the whole idea of Capital gain and greed. Lets face it the employee is at the bottom end, despite the ramblings of some compaines that state that there employees or thier best assets is only really lip service .

 

CHL and the boys over there did the right thing by forming a union to deal with conformity and abidance of the Canadian Labour laws. Look, Companies shirk these rules all the time and there is NOTHING the average employee can do to defend thier rights. As for HAC , this is the owners club that will NEVER agree to support an association or union, they are terrified of the day when they will have to abide to the laws of the land and not twist the rules.

 

Frankly the addage that a union or association protect those who are incomptetant is totaly untrue, and standards of safety and performance can be incorporated within this type of mechanism. I pay little attntion to anyone who says or claims that unions lower standards, what a union will do with all certainty is force companies to pay better wages in direct relation to the cost fo living and thereby the indirect reaction will be an increase of tarrifs. If giants want to stay competitive they will have no choice to provide the same wages, and if you think that they will source this from the bottom line think agian. Union or associoation is the best idea for all including making smaller compaines more competative aginst the giants. It would have leveling effect.

 

Cheers

 

H :up:

[amodao]

Oh my god, not this union/association crap again........

[hurler]

Allright Vader!

 

I'll give it a break! I didn't start it though!