To Trim or Not to Trim

[Bladestrike]

Thanks for the responses. Let me know if you find anything in the AFM. I''m back to work Tuesday and we have a few sitting around, I''ll look as well. If thats the case, it would explain alot.

[Xnr]

Blade

 

When your out over the ocean, miles and miles off shore,you can do as you please. But you are still doing it all wrong.

 

Cheers Buddy

[Rotorhead]

Bladestrike,

 

Are you in hibernation there buddy?

 

RH

[sharkbait]

While not having anything usefull to contribute:

I think I can tell a story obout why we fly against force trim:

A WISE MAN , one dark and stormy night, once told me that:

In the bad old days when green 204s and 5s flew over the green jungle and everybody was shooting at everybody else---

There was no AFCS, just force trim and a high time driver was 700 hrs.

Because one of the pieces of metal flying around the country could hit you you flew with your shoulder harness locked so you did not fall forward over the controls when shot and you trimmed for level flight and flew against the force trim so that when one got shot the a/c would perhaps return towards level flight while your copilot sprang to the controls.

Because flying in clouds and in the dark was also scary they did the same thing only now they kept the harness locked in case they got hit by lightning as they did not have WX Radar.

Because doing what is familiar is comfortable:

When everybody got back to civilization the same basic type of helicopter got painted pretty colours AFCS and WX radar was installed. There were still a lot of people who were used to doing it the old way way so they just kept on trimming for level and wrestling the beast around. Aside from which REAL MEN didn't need no fancy outo pilot to tell them where to go.

Besides which the Chinese Hat on most 212s is super sensitive and tends to either attempt a moon shot or an outside loop ( attempt at humour ) so most people just avoided touching the @#$%^ thing.

When I asked the MOST WISE what was truth He looked at me, pointed to the AFCS wheels and turn selector on the centre consul, and said:

" Listen chucklehead: In Cloud or at Night: Use the AFCS Att Hold to do all the turns that's what they spent all the money to design, build and install it for !!!!"

He then went back to reading his book.

 

It was a good story and made sense to me - often times I find people do things on one type because thats the way they did it on the Bung VertiLeap 2000 they flew last year. Habit becomes SOP.

 

I find that if you have the AFCS in ATTD and you try to wrestle around against trim or use the roll wheel instead of the turn knob on a 212 you will soon get the darn thing severely out of trim and on the 76 the DAFCS light will come on and sometimes the outo pilot has to be reset, most annoying. I constantly hector my poor cockpit companions about it.

 

Anyhoo that's the lighter side of it.

[twitch]

If I remember my Super Puma stuff I think the restriction in the flight manual was "releasing artificial loads" was prohibited under IMC?

 

It works with the 332 but Sikorsky's handle much better trimmed, in my opinion.

 

twitch

[Blackmac]

I tried trimming out my loved one using love handles, didn't work , so I just hung on for dear life. OHHHHH MYYYYY God.

[downwash]

As long as the AFM doesn't prohibit it, why not let the pansies turn with trim, and the rednecks just keep proving how tough they are?

[tomascupwing]

Hey Bladestrike

You opened up a pretty good can of worms. At first I thought you were talking about "Beavers". Here are a few more cans you may want to introduce:

Long line bucketing vs short line bucketing

Leafs vs Habs

Coors Light vs Blue Light

or my flavourite

Blondes vs Brunettes

 

Cheers

[Rotorhead]

Don't get him started on the brunettes... :boff:

 

RH

[Night Hawk]

Seems to me I remember hearing the story Sharkbait referred to years ago as well. For Pete's sake trim, thats what it's there for. I've done quite a bit of night and IFR instructing over the years, every guy I've seen get the leans you'd need pliers to pry the cyclic out of his cold dead hands, your instinct is NOT to let go of the controls. Also the only guys I've ever seen get the leans are IFR newbies, so why wrestle the a/c around the sky to avoid something that rarely if ever happens to an experienced crew.