Hobbs Time And Flight School

[twinstar_ca]

well said, SU... :up:

[lamanated]

First of all there isn't a hobbs meter I've ever seen that reads correctly.and some A/C

either use a mechanical or pressure activation.I think the only reason the Robbie uses them as the meter must have been tested to read correctly, as no where in any regs I've seen does it say that hobbs meters are a "functioning and reliable time piece" thats why you use your watch,cause it obviously is reliable cause you are comparing it to the radio etc...

[412driver]

here's a picture of the panel of the bell 204 that i am presently flying. i'm in alberta and we bill them with the hobbs (required by forestry)......

 

as it is directly connected to my paycheque, i can guarantee you that it clicks over every 6 minutes on the button :up:

 

so it starts in school and continues into your career........

[rotorheadrob]

So Hobbs or no Hobbs, that is the question.

 

Just so I understand, I'm hearing that with a Hobbs on board the student is guaranteed to learn more. I find that interesting. I started my flying career with a company that had Hobbs in every machine, advertised as connected to the collective. I soon found out that unspoken company policy was to adjust the switch so it was running whenever the battery was on. As a pilot I always have control of the time billed and would not have it any other way. With your Hobbs all you have to do is lift the collective a quarter inch and away it goes. The simple fact is, if you need an electronic devise to keep the instructor and school honest why would you sign up there in the first place. Is there a Hobbs to see how much time your “instructor” spends with you on the ground, or how about an electronic indicator to show how much time is wasted traveling to the working area, or one to show how much of your flight time is spent on valuable learning. How about an electronic devise that show how much helicopter you are getting for your money. ( refer to my last input) How much time do you spend in the helicopter learning, and have you been tought aviation or just how to pass a flight test, that should be the question. A professionally run educational institution will see the students ability as their product and do everything possible to ensure they are at the highest attainable level possible when completed. And trying to rip them off with air time versus flight time is not going to help.

 

The question should be, “ is the school in the buisness of selling air time, or are they focused on providing a quality education”? Does the CFI incurage the instructors to spend time on the ground with you one on one, or do you only get their time when the blades are turning, sorry, Hobbs is turning. I have no dought this question was sturred by a school with R-22’s and a CFI telling some-one that with out a hobbs a school will rip you off. I can only say that it’s sad if this is their biggest selling feature.

 

Just my thought, take it for what it’s worth.

[412driver]

"Just so I understand, I'm hearing that with a Hobbs on board the student is guaranteed to learn more."

 

nope

 

"or how about an electronic indicator to show how much time is wasted traveling to the working area

 

what's the cruise speed on those 47's again?

 

"or one to show how much of your flight time is spent on valuable learning."

 

student load and instructor experience should cover that......

[Blackmac]

You guys, flight school or charter, certainly like to turn things into a convoluted pile of BS.

 

"Air Time" goes against the overhaul times of all components of the aircraft. You can spend an hour on the ground doing run-ups, equipment checks etc and air time is not applicable until the aircraft/helicopter is off the ground. Air Time is what should be charged to the client, whether a student or charter.

 

Hobbs Meter time is not accepted by TC as an accurate method of calculating "Air Time".

 

You also seem to think that only the helicopter industry is effected by air time and flight time.

 

Welllllll Ive got news for you, the regulations were written for the whole GD industry.

 

How would you like to charter a B747 equipped with your so-called Hobbs Meter and have him sit in line, (Chicago) for sometimes up to an hour for take-off clearance and then be charged for the sitting time @ $7000/hr. Actually you are being charged "Air Time". The route has been calculated from A to B using mileage and then converted to "Air Time" using "Block Speed" of the aircraft, which is published in the tariff's filed with NTA. If you take the published block speed of the aircraft and the rate per hour you will get a rate per mile, this does not change unless the hourly costs increase or decrease.

 

Taking the above B747 scenario and if you were just a pax, how would you like to be charged a surcharge before you got to your destination for the ground idling time at each airport.

 

After reading how you turkey's seem to enjoy screwing the clients and taking advantage of their ignorance and then you wonder why they came out with tachometers in Jimmies Lagoon.

 

I am not saying everybody takes advantage of the client, the ones that do, you know who you are.

 

Don

[Skids Up]

how would you like to be charged a surcharge before you got to your destination for the ground idling time at each airport

 

Can you spell F - U - E - L $ $....?

 

In the end, 100 hours is a 100 hours. They will all learn at a different pace and have a different skill level when they do finish.

 

It seems that if you pay for a 100 hours of training, you get a 100 hours of training.

 

What you learn in that 100 hours, is a different story. And that I believe, is the difference between schools...

 

But what do I know??? It was so long ago I hardly remember like it was yesterday.

[Blackmac]

From somebody I figured would understand, you have left me with blinders on.

 

Possibly, it's because I'm speaking Amhara.

 

Don

[412driver]

well said Skids Up :up:

 

this can be argued 6 ways from sunday.........

 

100 hours in the logbook at the end of your course is 100 hours.........

 

and to all the prospective students i say again...go and check out ALL the schools and make an informative decision!

[Winnie]

SOmebody said above about logging time for grpund school and briefings.

 

Like I said previously, we use the hobbs, the hobbs show FLIGHT TIME in the 300, (Blades turning to bklades stopping) simple as that. That is what the student pay for. On some machines (Like the ones I flew in the states) they had two hobbs, one on the skid gear for Maintenance times) one on the Trannie for Flight time, and that was that.

 

You still pay from blades turning...

Now with regards to Ground school and briefings. My briefings will last as long as it takes for the student to get the picture, might be 10 minutes, might be an hour. I don't charge extra for that, it is built into the flight time pay. The ground school is required to be 80 hours, but I usually spend about 120 hours, the student pays for 80...

 

THe extra time comes from?? Flight time...

 

That is how we do it here, and where I've been the last 2 years.

 

Now a company I used to work for previously... They'd charge for briefings, Groundschool time over, Late fees, no-show fees, insurance, fuel surcharge and so on.

 

And they paid the worst of any of the companies I've instructed for...