Maintenance Staff

[MikeT49]

Sorry the chart got messed up...

 

1st Yr 2nd Yr 3rd Yr 4th Yr New Licensed

 

Tool & Die Maker 11.25 13.62 15.54 17.94 23.29

Mould Maker 11.16 13.59 16.05 20.07 22.89

General Machinist 10.93 13.83 15.78 17.96 23.44

Pattern Maker 11.05 14.90 15.95 18.50 23.94

Automotive 22.00

Carpenter 20.00

Cook 15.00

Electrician 20.00

HD Mech. 24.00

Millwright 24.00

Welding 20.00

 

 

This data is 2 – 4 years old and came from multiple Canadian sources. To correct for inflation add 3% per year. It seems common to pay 50-55% of the newly licensed wage to a fresh apprentice.

 

What are students expecting to make fresh out of school in general? Wages come with experience and training. I can tell you 80% of the product coming out of the college where live un-hirable. I use the term product because the college seems to be operating as business and not a school.

 

I will also say that I am considering phasing out my apprenticeship program completely. This is unfortunate for the industry as a whole but at the present time in the best interest of my company. The reasons for this are:

 

1) Poor quality of student

2) High turn over rate do to unrealistic expectations.

3) “What do mean I have to leave town for two weeks” or “It’s not 9 till 5?”

 

Just my opinion...

 

Just for interest sake... I left a cooking career to be where I am now….

[helimat]

Just for interest sake... I left a cooking career to be where I am now….

 

Me too!!!

 

Great times, no money. Now it's allright times with allright money!

[212wrench]

If your not going to hire apprentises than don't complain about not finding experienced engineers.

 

I also thank you for confirming what I have said about industry.

[arctic_front]

3) “What do mean I have to leave town for two weeks” or “It’s not 9 till 5?”

 

I can't recall ever being asked by any DOM how long out in the field I 'wanted' to be out for....it was always: If they say you are going out for a week, pack for a month

 

I will add to that, the appearance and attitude of some of the new 'crop' of young engineers and apprentices. I worked with a couple of guys and at least one gal recently that has a major issue with taking direction or instruction. They seem to have little or no respect for their seniors, or superiors. I'm not sure when the rules changed, but as far back as I can remember, when the licensed guy or DOM said jump, we used to ask "How high?" These days, we get a lot of "Why should I do that?" or "That's not what we were taught in AME school" or "Your not my boss"

 

The apearance leaves a lot to be desired too. I realize that fashion and personal taste's change, but the job of repairing aircraft has not. Pants hanging off your ***, hair in your face, wearing shirts with less-than polite messages when dealing with the public, or sandals and shorts instead of proper footwear and long pants leaves the impression with me, at least, that they think this job is summer camp. Not showing up in the early AM for a run-up and leak-check, or not having your D.I. done the night before are all things I see regularly with the new generation of engineers. Of course this is not applicable to everybody, as there is a few very fine and talented rookies out there. I'm wondering if the individual companies have maybe failed to get the message across to these guys what is considered appropriate when out in the field or the hangar? Same can be said of some pilots too.

 

We are not only professionals in our vocation as engineers and pilots, but we are also the public face of the company we represent. Leaving a bad impression with the customer while on the job or heaven forbid, in the pub after hours, is something our boss's would rather they not have to worry about. For the most part our employers pay us well to do our job, and we owe them at least the respect of being professional while we are out on the job or in the public eye.

 

( just a amusing side-note: Ever wear a competitor's hat or t-shirt out to the bar when behaving badly? Naaa, not ME!)

[67november]

3) “What do mean I have to leave town for two weeks” or “It’s not 9 till 5?”

 

I will add to that, the appearance and attitude of some of the new 'crop' of young engineers and apprentices. I worked with a couple of guys and at least one gal recently that has a major issue with taking direction or instruction. They seem to have little or no respect for their seniors, or superiors. I'm not sure when the rules changed, but as far back as I can remember, when the licensed guy or DOM said jump, we used to ask "How high?" These days, we get a lot of "Why should I do that?" or "That's not what we were taught in AME school" or "Your not my boss"

 

The apearance leaves a lot to be desired too. I realize that fashion and personal taste's change, but the job of repairing aircraft has not. Pants hanging off your ***, hair in your face, wearing shirts with less-than polite messages when dealing with the public, or sandals and shorts instead of proper footwear and long pants leaves the impression with me, at least, that they think this job is summer camp. Not showing up in the early AM for a run-up and leak-check, or not having your D.I. done the night before are all things I see regularly with the new generation of engineers. Of course this is not applicable to everybody, as there is a few very fine and talented rookies out there. I'm wondering if the individual companies have maybe failed to get the message across to these guys what is considered appropriate when out in the field or the hangar? Same can be said of some pilots too.

 

A_F you just described the "new Crop" in every field of work not just aviation. this is the very reason SOP's need to be reinstated as this would take care of many of the issues you pointed out.

 

 

( just a amusing side-note: Ever wear a competitor's hat or t-shirt out to the bar when behaving badly? Naaa, not ME!)

 

naaa, not me either

[splitpin]

3) “What do mean I have to leave town for two weeks” or “It’s not 9 till 5?”

 

I can't recall ever being asked by any DOM how long out in the field I 'wanted' to be out for....it was always: If they say you are going out for a week, pack for a month

 

I will add to that, the appearance and attitude of some of the new 'crop' of young engineers and apprentices. I worked with a couple of guys and at least one gal recently that has a major issue with taking direction or instruction. etc.

 

 

A_F Your post was probably one of the best I have ever seen on this site. Says it all! "Well Done!" All Pilots and Engineers should always be well groomed, professional and civilized. I'm afraid those days are long gone.

 

P.S. Never wore a competitors hat, but we used to sign senior management names to get into the Legion in Blue River. "B. Coleman", "W. Pabluski" etc. The company frowned on us imbibing on our time off!

Splitpin

[marc]

Marc, before you go trashing ESL students you should try running spell check...

 

I didn't know there was spell check on these forums....sorry

 

I wasn't trashing all ESL students. I wish I could help them out more. In my opinion I think a lot of them are in school not really from their own decision, and are being led on by the various schools that enroll them toward some pot of gold at the end after paying $30,000.

[helimat]

I wasn't trashing all ESL students. I wish I could help them out more. In my opinion I think a lot of them are in school not really from their own decision, and are being led on by the various schools that enroll them toward some pot of gold at the end after paying $30,000.

 

Who pays $30,000 for AME training? Are we including $10,000 for booze? (As much as a requirement as any other, but should not be in the total...) I know the price has gone up, but three times as much as I paid seems unreal.

If that is an accurate number, then why would people pay that much, and hope to get a job for $10 an hour?

And we need to hire apprentices, anyone who refuses to is screwing the industry, even if it means hiring someone with baggy pants or long hair.

[marc]

Who pays $30,000 for AME training? Are we including $10,000 for booze? (As much as a requirement as any other, but should not be in the total...) I know the price has gone up, but three times as much as I paid seems unreal.

If that is an accurate number, then why would people pay that much, and hope to get a job for $10 an hour?

And we need to hire apprentices, anyone who refuses to is screwing the industry, even if it means hiring someone with baggy pants or long hair.

 

International Students have to pay A LOT more for any type of post-secondary education.

[helimat]

International Students have to pay A LOT more for any type of post-secondary education.

 

I suppose you are right, I thought you were talking about students in general, being led on. $30,000 for a course is a lot, too much for Canadians. Students from other countries, however, should pay full costs if not more, due to the fact they have never paid taxes which subsidise the courses. Also, I believe most of international students intend on returning home with a new trade upon completion of the training, not staying here and competing with locals for jobs, so the language barrier might only effect the schooling aspect of their careers.

I firmly believe Canada should continue it's contribution to the Global Village, but let's take care of Canadians first.

That is what this thread is about, isn't it? The shortage of AME's in Canada?