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Flight Training Puppy Mills (canada)


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There are periodic negative references to so-called "puppy mills" in the discussions on this forum. I have however yet to see any attempt to define this term and am curious as to the perspectives out there on this topic. These perspectives can be from within or outside of the flight training profession.

 

I suspect that it could become akin to comparing apples and oranges to define flight training units outside Canada so I limit my inquiry to Canadian flight schools (rotary or fixed) alone.

 

Without naming particular schools (or even hinting at any):

 

1) What do you think defines the proverbial "puppy mill" and,

 

2) Do you believe Canada has them?

 

100'

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good topic :up:

 

i guess some people would define "puppy mills" as flight schools that put out more students than there are jobs. if that's the case, then UBC is a puppy mill, Simon Fraser University is a puppy mill and so on...........

 

to a perspective student i would say to watch out for a school that takes on more students than they have machines for. reason? you won't fly everyday...........

 

i have heard of schools running up to 8 students per instructor which makes me wonder when they have the time for pre/post flight briefings ect.....

 

we run a MAX of 4 students per instructor and that makes for a full day. i can't imagine having more because then we would have students standing around waiting to fly <_<

 

 

as far as limiting student pilot permits to only meet the needs of employers? well, what if when you decided you wanted to fly helicopters the school said: "sorry, our quota is full, but we have an opening in 3 years" :shock: :shock:

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A school that is only intrested in the money. By this i mean a school that keeps pumping out poor young people who they know dont have the right attitude, drive or in some cases the hands to get work in this small industry. Because we all know this jobs not for everyone..

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I think MEOB has it on the button. I see no reason why, if someone comes along and says "train me", that a school shouldn't train someone - that's their business after all. The schools are not responsible for market forces. But they should be honest and not take the money if someone is not going to make it.

 

Phil

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OMG, you people are going on about the ethics in training schools,,,,what about the ethics in seismic, polar shelf, forestry, almost any contract out there and flapping about the guy charging 400 hour for a piston banger.....how bout 643 wet for 206, 1374 for 407,,,,on and on, companies will always charge what they think they need for that aircraft for whatever reason. If you have a aircraft sitting albeit training or skiing you will find a way to bring in a dollar. Who gives a crap about the puppy mills, should we worry about having a bachelor of arts degree,,,rather a useless piece of $40,000 dollar paper too.

 

 

I think it should be a discussion on how to bring folks up the ladder with some help. The economy in the west is booming and we are having trouble getting qualified help like every other sector in industry so think about it. By this I mean why is it that Ontario used to subsidize training yet omnr has a 2000 hr minimum,,,,,there should be some gov help in ensuring that the industry can bring up pilots in some sanction of work. Not sure how though. There are those in the industry who believe you need 1500-2000 hours to fly from Fort Mac to Syncrude,,,each to their own but it is very hard to find a place for people under 1000 hours. I applaud the likes of VIH who hire low time pilots still and bring them up doing whatever they can...but it is alot harder for the small companies due to specialized work and insurance requirements.

 

I have no problem with schools pumping out pilots, there will always be folks who dislike it, usually the CP of a company not hiring them but inudated with resumes and calls....we need pilots and we need experienced ones,,,,it is not happening,,,how do we get from a to b....?????? I don't know, but things need to change soon.

 

I don't have the answers but the industry has to start looking ahead.

 

sc

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MEOB and Albert Ross make a good point; the only commercial reason to set up a helicopter training school is to make a profit from training people to fly helicopters or to provide a supply of pilots for a commercial operation. The reasons people choose to learn to fly a helicopter are many and varied one would presume, so it is a valid point to say what business is it of the school to question why, unless of course the training is subsidised to supply a commercial operation.

 

All helicopter training schools in Canada offer training for a commercial license, but this license on it’s own does not make you employable as a pilot, so any school that takes a students money and allows them to walk away with just a commercial license is in my humble opinion guilty of being a “puppy mill”.

 

It is far more important what you can learn from the pilots and everybody else you will meet during your training, about what the industry requires to be employable. Personally I aim to train for a career as a pilot so the opportunity to train and network with experienced operational pilots is most important in the process of deciding what school to train at.

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Hey, how about this argument. Why does the government allow someone with only 150 hrs train others to fly???

 

I personally think instructors should have a minimum of 5000 PIC before they can even think of showing someone to fly a heli!

 

I heard this through a guy that came through our hanger last week. His buddy with his fresh 100 hrs license is getting another 30-40 hrs, and getting his class four instructor, TO TEACH SOMEONE ELSE TO FLY! This is scary. I know they are 'supervised' by a class 1 or 2, but the end product is that all he can do is teach the person to pass the flight test. With no operational experience, they can pass on NOTHING!

 

One of the first questions I ask the 100hrs guys is what school, and WHO taught them to fly?

 

I have not really heard of any 'puppy mills' as per such in Canada, but there are definately good and better schools! Your instructor is an important part of finding a job. This is a small industry and most people know whats happening in it commercially and training wise.

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I wish i had researched the school i started at a lot more. there were 5 of us in a class room built for that number,by the end of the week there were 9 of us.3 instructors sounded good...the head flight instuctor worked for another company,the second would instruct on his week off from his other job and the third would be scooping any 206 trips possible.Not knowing any of this before signing up . Needless too say there were many morings that there were 9 of us ready to roll and guess what ...no instructors,then around 3pm all **** would break loose and two instructors would show up and be scrambling to get us up in the air. All this while training a low timer from the year before to get his instuctors rating.Would i call this a puppy mill i don't know,if people want something bad enough they see past it,untill they get frusterated as i did and left half way through and finished off at a different school as did another student and we both ended up at the same school again.An operater is in bussines to make money,its up to the one putting 50g's on the line if its right for them , i can say it was an expensive lesson

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T-Rex, I agree, though I would probably put the minimum at 1500 hours!

 

I know the argument that a 150-hour instructor is only bringing someone up to their level, but I believe there is a lot that can be taught at an early stage above the basic syllabus that would benefit a student that a low-timer just won't be able to do.

 

Phil

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