Flight Training Puppy Mills (canada)

[Petit-Lion]

One must log 250 hrs PIC time after the CPL, before to start a helicopter instructor course (CARs 421.77). This instructor course includes 30-40 hours of flight time. That means around 400 hours TT before starting to teach only basic manœuvres, the emergencies being told only by more experienced CFIs.

 

In the US I believe they can start their instructor course right after the 150 hrs CPL.

[Winnie]

In the US I believe they can start their instructor course right after the 150 hrs CPL.

 

In the states you can start your instructor course during the training for your CPL, just so that is said.

 

I started instructing at 155 hours total time, at the biggest school in the world (Civilian) HAI.

 

I should perhaps keep my mouth shut and listen, however I do not agree 100% to the above comments.

 

There are terrible instructors at 155 hours,and there are terrible instructors at 5000 hours, soo who is better. Obviously the training here in Canada is different, with more a view to the "bush business". However, a more experienced instructor may have the tendcency to focus on the "you should know this" or the nice to know part, while the guy with no time at all otherwise will focus on the "Flight Test Standards" which is what TC judges us and the prospective students on.

I will now get off the soapbox.

 

With regards to puppy mills, if you produce 90% more than needed, then the operator will have more to choose from??

 

I have only worked at 1 school like that, and it was in the states.

[Phil Croucher]

"There are terrible instructors at 155 hours,and there are terrible instructors at 5000 hours"

 

Quite agree, Winnie - and there are also good instructors at 155 hours. It's a difficult line to draw, I know

 

Phil

[oopsydaisy]

Good day folks,

 

All I have to say is that if it were my money I would make sure I was not training with a 150, 250 or 400 hour pilot. I dont care if they are an up and coming prodigy or gods gift to piloting, bottom line is they have "0" operational knowledge and that to me is far more important than the TC syllabus or "standards". **** near everything ever taught other than emergency procedures is thrown out the window as soon as you are out in the bush on your own. My instructor was Bob McCord an absolute legend in the industry over 20,000 hours Tt. 8000 of which were training, that to me is someone that is qualified. I would have been plenty pissed if some kid came around the corner who has seen nothing and done nothing to train me for the day, what a joke!!!!

Bottom line, it is up to the student to research the school he intends to attend, who cares if a school trains someone that isnt cut out for the job, they are in it to make money as well.

 

Helicopters and ethics should not be used in the same sentence. (hahaha)

 

 

Mcfly_24

[rotrhd1]

Not to insult anyone, but just because you have thousands of hours flying does not mean you're going to be a good instructor. Instructing experience and attitude is what's going to make a good or great instructor. Patience and the ability to descirbe the same thing 8 different ways also has a lot to do with it.

 

there are good arguments for both camps.

 

High timers may pass along valued "bush" tips that may one day prove useful... "hey, when you're lifting a drill on 150 feet of line at 5000 feet on the side of a glacier, make sure you...", but the student's not going to use this for quite a while.

 

Low timers may have more empathy for their students because they recently went through the whole exerciese... "treat each exercise as something completely of itself... if you mess it up forget about it and move onto the next item..." whatever...

 

The thing is it's based on the individual not how many hours are in the logbook, which may not be accurate anyway...

 

Besides, there isn't anybody that can teach you how to fly... Instructors are facilitators that help in your learning process. They provide suggestions and exercises that let the student build on their skills and knowlegde all the while protecting students from the dangers they do not yet know about. You don't need thousands of hours to do that.

 

RH1

[Helilog56]

Not to insult anyone, but just because you have thousands of hours flying does not mean you're going to be a good instructor. Instructing experience and attitude is what's going to make a good or great instructor. Patience and the ability to descirbe the same thing 8 different ways also has a lot to do with it.

 

 

Besides, there isn't anybody that can teach you how to fly... Instructors are facilitators that help in your learning process. They provide suggestions and exercises that let the student build on their skills and knowlegde all the while protecting students from the dangers they do not yet know about. You don't need thousands of hours to do that.

 

RH1

 

RH1......excellent points, well said..... :up: :up:

[412driver]

last year, in one of the local practice areas, an airplane made a radio call broadcasting their intentions of practicing a forced approach into a field below...

 

good call but the point of the story is that after the student made the call, the TX stuck open and everybody within earshot heard the instructor screaming and yelling at the poor student ALL THE WAY DOWN! :shock:

 

as soon as the radio cleared, one after another people started commenting on air what an idiot this guy was (the instructor) and rightfully so.........

 

funny thing, i seem to remember one of my instructors kinda outspoken.......

 

i don't really agree with the term "puppy mill" but i would say that some schools may consider quantity over quality. but that is up to the perspective student to investigate and decide for themselves.........

 

nothing wrong with schools putting out pilots, that's their business...... look at Harvard University....the USA seems pretty chockfull of lawyers but people still pay 100K for 4 years there.........

 

when a student tells me it has been his dream to fly helicopters all his life it is my job to teach him how to do it as best as i can........ :up:

 

although, being straight up on the odds of finding work is also part of that job..

 

ok, end of rant. i have finished my coffee and it's time to tinker in my garage! my bike is dirty from the last ride so that needs washing.........

[Cole]

I have a FW instructor thats like that... last year when he taught me to do short field landings we did three circuits of him yelling at me befor I said "Have you even bothered to show me how this is done? Ive read about it, but never actually done one, so how about you show me how to do one first?" needless to say, after he showed me one I could do them all day long, but he still kept yelling at me... that was my last flight with said instructor.

 

I think its up to the student to find out witch schools are in it for the quantity over quality. It was up to me to find out wich instructor I liked and disliked, and fly with whom ever I want. I encourage everyone that goes to the school I train at to be more demanding from the school. Make your own decisions.

 

The question should be "Why are so many people jumping in to training without finding out their options first" I know a very good guy who was told that "If you dont have all your training on a turbine, you may as well not train at." Last I heard he was going to train here in Penticton at CHL because one person told him he should.

 

My $0.02

Cole

[Plinko]

There is no right or wrong answer here. Whenever I have been asked about where someone should train, I recomend a school that has an affiliation with an operational company. At least you can spend your $40 grand on a job interview. There are no guarantees but you are further ahead than someone that trains at a school with no affiliation. I did 90 of my 100 hours at an unaffiliated school and was told by the owner/chief instructor that I did not need a turbine endorsement in order to find work. He also had no advice or leads for me on possible employment. He got his money..patted me on the *** and said good luck. I did however get a turbine endorsement from a well known company. That was the best $6000 I spent. I bought me a interview that eventually turned into my first job. Furthermore I learned more about flying in that 10 hours with an experienced instructor than in most of the 90 previous with a 1500 hour instructor that had no operational experience. Do not get me wrong my instructor was very good and did a great job...he just did not have the background at that time to pass on the little nuances and details that can save your bacon some day.

 

At the end of the day though...it all boils down to conviction. If you are serious about a career in flying then you will find work. It will not matter where you train...if your attitude and committment are there you will find employment. Besides the real learning happens once you are on a payroll somewhere. I would say it would be irresponsible to not research schools properly and I still feel one should stack the odds in their favour. But do not feel you have to spend $80 or more grand to get a job.

 

Plink

 

ps My vote goes for the high time instructor. It is more of a safety issue for me...if the #### hits the fan...I want someone that does not have to think to react helping me get the a/c safely on the ground.

[gwk]

I know that I am going to open a can of worms with this but here goes.

 

 

If you are a customer, paying a grand an hour for a helicopter, why would you accept a 100 hour pilot, or for that matter, a 1000 hour pilot, when for the same money, you can demand and probably get the the 10,000 hour pilot, and all that knowlegde and exprience.

 

The same goes for flight training, who in their right mind would pay the same price for a wet behind the ears instructor, with less than 1000 hours, when you can get a experienced logger/ offshore pilot who teaches because they wanna teach, not because it,s a convienent way to accumulate hours, and pay off a debt.

 

For what it is worth, reread Plinko,s post above me, as it speaks volumes, and if I were to do it again, I,d go with the instructor I get along with, who has the most to pass on, and worry less about the type of machine, and spend the last 10 hours on a machine like the 206, which, chances are, I would most likely be put to work with.

 

Remember the Boy Scout saying, Always be prepared, especially when looking for that first job!

 

GWK

 

And there is no shame whatsoever, in buying your first interview, although I was lucky enough not to need to, I would not hesitate, another brilliant idea.

 

Fly safe, Fly smart