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treetopflyer

Getting Out While The A/c Is Running.

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(from CARs)

 

No person shall leave an engine of an aircraft running unless

 

(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft; or

 

(B) where no persons are on board the aircraft,

 

(i) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving, and

 

(ii) the aircraft is not left unattended.

 

 

OK, so you can leave the seat if............ no persons onboard, at idle with frictions on, and you can define 'unattended'.

 

 

Yes, theoretically a helicopter could "lift-off", or more exactly "blow-over" at idle..........

A 204 with rotors-stopped blew over in northern Alberta a few years ago during a storm......it does happen. But taking a whizz in that sort of breeze would be really messy. If I could just land under such conditions I'd probably already have lost bladder control in the cockpit !!

 

The 206L falling off the ridge is a true story, of which we will never know the full details. We later lost that very professional pilot, and should probably leave that story alone as a matter of respect for our brothers who aren't here to talk about it.

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I find it very hard to believe a machine could take off @ ground idle, the governor is not engaged until around 90%. The coefficient of lift states velocity is squared, Lift= C ½ p V2 S

 

so 1% rpm = 2% lift. With out a governor it seems impossible that the small amount of airflow over the blade could lift it off. I have been instructing for a few years and can attest that a 206 will stop flying @ 70% NR. ( as seen with poor engine failure at the hover )

 

Just my oppinion but I cant see it.

 

 

Rob

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The C of G of a helicopter with just the pilot is tail heavy, I've had the cyclic of 212 hit the instrument shroud trying to get the nose down, same with a 206. The pad is normally elevated, so you let the rear touch first and drop the collective slowly.

 

I've also had to put two forty fives tied to the front gear on a Vertol 21 to keep the nose gear on the ground, shut down in a high wind. Another problem with the 21 was shutting down in high winds, trying to keep the blades from hitting the fuselage.

 

Love it.

 

Cheers, Don

 

PS: Was the 206L on the rail line out of 7 islands?? DP picked one 206 up that had an engine failure/problem and was slinging it back when it became unhooked.

Not appreciated by the insurance company.

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1) "Boosted" T/R pedals on 206's of yore trained it's pilots well about getting out of any 206 while still running. Many of the cautions learned were carried-over to their "non-boosted" cousins. 206's cannot take-off while at idle? Friends, you get a strong enough wind coming-up through that M/R disc and you'd be surprised what a 206 can do at idle. Take a word of advice from someone who once believed otherwise and learned differently.......QUICKLY!!!!

 

2) Put your frictions "ON"; shut your hydraulics "OFF" on your 204/05/12 and get out to do whatever. IF that a/c is not sitting completely level on terra firma, rudder pedals will "walk" from their neutral position and cause one to have a "bad hair day". A new 205 was completely destroyed in the early 70's in the East while it's pilot was fuelling the a/c and the a/c was sitting on a newly-made and perfect 205 pad. Okanagan also lost a 212 down East not many years later while it was sitting on supposedly level ground. Result: A/C was severely damaged and the pilot was not any kind of "green-horn", but considered one of Okanagan's "finest".

 

It's called "Be Careful", "Pay Attention", "Don't Get Cavalier" and realize always that some very, very good pilots have been embarrassed badly doing the exact same thing as you are now doing.

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The C of G of a helicopter with just the pilot is tail heavy, I've had the cyclic of 212 hit the instrument shroud trying to get the nose down, same with a 206. The pad is normally elevated, so you let the rear touch first and drop the collective slowly.

 

I've also had to put two forty fives tied to the front gear on a Vertol 21 to keep the nose gear on the ground, shut down in a high wind. Another problem with the 21 was shutting down in high winds, trying to keep the blades from hitting the fuselage.

 

Love it.

 

Cheers, Don

 

PS: Was the 206L on the rail line out of 7 islands?? DP picked one 206 up that had an engine failure/problem and was slinging it back when it became unhooked.

Not appreciated by the insurance company.

 

Don are you thinking about the 206 that was in a trian accident that the Gazelle was slinging back to Sept-Illes when the lanyard broke?

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The 206 I mentioned was not the one which "fell" off the ridge, this one was in Vortex and they went to great lengths to descibe the aerodynamics how the wind speed plus upflow caused it. Was in early 80's I believe.

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i know that the idea of a machine lifting off at only ground idle is not possable if you look at Physics and plug all the veriable into the formula but bumble bees and 747 aren't suppose to fly either.

 

in the right conditions anthing can happen so i guess we all have to be carefull and on ower toes

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Cap, In the 212 do you turn the 'hydraulics' off, or just activate the 'force trim' ???

 

Skullcap, yes I recall a 206 "falling" (or maybe 'lifting') off a ridge in the '80s........Campbell River area and quite windy I recall........different circumstances than the 206L.

(Now that I think about it, that pilot was another friend we've lost since then.

****, this business can be a *****).

 

I treat getting out with engines running like I treat river-runs in a 500........

we've all done it in the past.......

keep it to a bare minimum in the future......

and don't get your photo taken !!

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NEVER turn your hydraulics off if you get out of any Bell product previously mentioned. Ensure your "built in" and pilot adjustable frictions and force trim are standard for type before you even think of vacating the aircraft!

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NEVER turn your hydraulics off if you get out of any Bell product previously mentioned

 

Have to agree with this. Had a Jet Ranger that used to "walk the controls" with the hydraulics off. If you don't have force trim, use the frictions, and the collective lock when available...

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