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Whats Fair For A Wrench?


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I firmly believe in every thread that was posted, even my own. But having said that I also believe that you cannot live in the past. There has to be a certain amount of give and take and personally I'm all for it. There should be some kind of a work schedule that you can possibly plan your life and the life of your family around. Everybody should get the going payrate that the majority of companies are paying, including benefits.

 

To start of with most companies always say that they can't afford it because the tariff is so low.

 

The customer has to be educated to the fact that if they don't start paying a reasonable price for the helicopters, there wont be any helicopters for lack of crews.

 

My personal belief is the whole industry is F'd up, starting from the customer who wants something for nothing, the owners worried about the bottom dollar and the crews screaming for a better way of life within the industry.

 

I don't know when the head office people are going to start realizing that the people making the money for the company is not the sales people or the accountants, but the crews in the field doing the actual work. Even the President is overhead.

 

It's about time, that the time's changed.

 

IMHO, Don

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Just so I am clear, you would like someone like myself, a Director of Maintenance, to pay you $100,000/year for 6 months work; is this correct?

and you are only able to work 14 days/month, correct?

and you would probably like some holidays also?

would you like some training thrown in also?

how about a type course?

are you sure you're not a pilot?

You see this is the problem with the industry , You get these old timers who had it rough in the old days and can't understand what it takes to get good staff. If you look at the companies that fly alot of hours and need good staff to keep thier aircraft srvicable year round you are going to pay more than $100 000 k a year.

 

And judging by your attitude, your the guy payin wallmart greeter wages and a 42 on and 6 off shift.

If thats how you run your business I'm sure you have people just beating down your door.

 

Welcome to the year 2007 if your looking for engineers excpect to pay for what you get!

 

PS Nice comment about the pilot that tells me alot about you character Mr DOM.

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$100000/year is $555 a day for 180 days, not far off the rates put up in some other treads in this forum. I have heard $400/ day $50/ hour from an Ab company, $300+/day $50/hr 3 hr garanteed from BC, another $375/day, $50/hr from another BC company and it was listed in this forum. So $500/ day is not very far out there.

I have 26years wrenching, the last 5 exclusive on the 212. I still learn something every day, but after 5 years one should know enough that any snag that shows up, he can deal with competently. He has the time invested in the industry to be mature enough to do the job, that is what a DOM should be looking for, so yes, he should get top dollar. It is the guys with 5 years that will be filling the older guys (like me) positions in the near future.

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thinking about the 5 year experience mark....it's all relative to who you're working for and what experience you managed to garner from that time. Just to see the 5 year mark on your licence doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

I know many guys who had beautiful running machines and rarely had any down time, while others chased gremlins day in and day out, others spent the majority of their time in the hanger doing rebuilds. Comparing the groups, there is a huge difference in the experience level that those 5 years have offered. With the vast range of aircraft ages (alot of new ships are being delivered) and of course maintenance practices (we know some out there are bottom of the barrel) you can have an experience filled time, or a nice layed back approach where all you do is scheduled maintenance.

 

when i look at my last 5 years away from the field and performing overhauls, I do look at my new experience here as a great asset. Although I have missed out on alot of great troubleshooting experience, I have learned a great deal about the inner workings of the components and can apply that knowledge to preventative maintence. How much is that worth to a company??

 

If I was a DOM looking for someone who is commanding $100,000/year, I would like to see proof that he has that experience I was looking for and willing to pay for.

Would it be out of line during a job interview to hand the guy a snag defect from a pilot and watch over his shoulder with a stop watch and time his progress to completion? Kinda like an EPC (engineer proficiency check) :punk:

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"Would it be out of line during a job interview to hand the guy a snag defect from a pilot and watch over his shoulder with a stop watch and time his progress to completion? Kinda like an EPC (engineer proficiency check) "

 

This would be very interesting to see. I can see its merrits

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Fix aircraft by time!!! Theres an accident waiting to happen. Check the TSB and NTSB reports, you will find lots of accidents because people were under time constraints, but very few that say the engineer or mechanic were given the time and support to do the job properly. I have 16 years 212 experience and even though I know the machine pretty well I am definetley not naive enough to say I have seen every snag. When you think you know it all you become dangerous.

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I think the idea of an EPC as Feniston called it would be to see how the engineer uses his time and knowledge to handle a problem competently and efficiently. How do you know a person will be able to do the job, you could call his previous boss, his friends, but would you get an unbisased answer. The only way know, is to hire the individual, throw them into the workforce and hope all goes well, and the aircraft continues flying.

Time constraints, yes, they are there and always will be (unless you work in the military during peacetime). No matter were you work in the civilian aviation world, you work against time.

Your last sentence, 212wrench, I would change only one thing: replace "become" with "are". When you think you know it all, the word complacency comes into play.

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Fen-Fen: I agree with your statement.

 

What most Pilots and AME's forget is that the licence only gives you the right to learn, it is not a magical piece of paper that suddenly makes you smart or a know it all.

 

If a pilot reaches 3K without any major mishaps, he has usually experienced most things that can be done with a helicopter, I'm talking a bush pilot.

 

An Ame at five years with exposure to re-builds and component o/h in the off-season of bush work, has started to develop a troubleshooting background.

 

IMHO

 

Don

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Fix aircraft by time!!! Theres an accident waiting to happen. Check the TSB and NTSB reports, you will find lots of accidents because people were under time constraints, but very few that say the engineer or mechanic were given the time and support to do the job properly. I have 16 years 212 experience and even though I know the machine pretty well I am definetley not naive enough to say I have seen every snag. When you think you know it all you become dangerous.

 

 

every job i have done has some time constraint tagged with it. thats the nature of doing maintenence when the aircraft is flying and trying to make money to pay my wages and everyone elses. there are no two ways around it, and if you cannot handle the pressure, then check your tools at the door because you will not be suitable for this industry.

when I mentioned the stopwatch idea, it was meant to be a guage to your abilties, not a get 'er done in ten minutes or the jobs not yours idea. we have all types in this industry and there is a fine line to being fast and safe, and being slow and costly. I worked with several engineers who were hard pressed to accomplish in two nights what most engineers could do in one. so from a finacial standpoint, that engineer is not worth $100,000 to me....he's doing half the work and costing me just as much if not more.

You want the job, want the big bucks associated with it then you have to prove you can perform. Its no different with pilots, doctors, dentists, and even F1 race drivers. Everyone has a level they are paid to perform at.

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