Alberta....hello

[chopperman]

What type of aircraft are you running 2007? What is the difference dollar wise from what Alberta Forestry is paying and your tarriff?

Forestry no matter what province you're in is a "CUSTOMER" like every other customer you have and it is your "CHOICE" to fly for them or not. So many operators feel that forestry has to use them, no they don't if you do not meet they're requirements. Like any other customer they have requirements. Many of the provinces including the great British Columbia are going to require tracking systems. People are saying they are forced to buy these expensive tracking systems, nobody is forced to do anything, if you don't want to buy them don't, but you will not be able to fly for the customer that requires it which will be forestry for now but I see it as a requirement that will be asked by other customers in the near future.

Everybody wants us to raise the rates, so we say thats it we are going to ask top dollar for our equipment and it doesn't go out the door unless we get it. You as a pilot are you willing to sit in the hanger with that machine because nobody is hiring it? How long are you going to sit in my hanger and wait with that machine while your buddy down the flight line is flying big hours? I want some honest answers from all of you that keep suggesting this.

The best way I've heard it put is getting all the operators to agree on set rates and stick to it is "like trying to herd cats" there will always be that one or two that will do the "deal" on the side.

If we set tarriff's can we also set wages? Where eveyone pays the same? Are you willing to agree to that?

I would like to see set rates because then you have to get the business with your service and equipment. That equates to your employee's and I'm confident we could stay as busy and even busier than we are now because of the awesome team we have here right now.

 

Todd Tkach

Gemini Helicopters

[chopper_guy]

Sure it's a pain to have Alberta dictate what they will pay the operators for their services, and I'm all for charging the tariff rate, but don't forget that we are getting 4 hours per day, without averaging, every day. That has to be worth something to the operators. So, with regard to the other provinces, we seem to be comparing apples with oranges.

[vortex]

Alberta's rate system seems to be a reasonable average for the most part. In my opinion, they have been fair. Not too high - not too low. The 4 hours that is not averaged is worth something. If you have customers that pay better, you may want to cater to them instead but if theres nothing else to do, it sure beats a lot of the oil field rates The long term cotract rates that guys seem to bid is another story :shock: If you're getting better rates elsewhere, probly best stay there...

[2007]

Hey Todd

EC120's like you folks.

$110 more per hour than the rate paid in Alberta.

Blue Sky flight following. Aircraft with a tracking system will be given preference in BC this season and will be mandatory next year. Great system, don't leave home without it.

Like herding cats is an understatement. We will always have someone that will sell their 30 year old 206 for $650/hr., but things are changing slowly. Likewise, there are always customers that will think they are getting a deal when they fly with old equipment and new pilots with heavy pencils. That is a product of economics and uneducated customers.

The basis of my thread was that a"customer" (regardless if it is a provincial government or private customer) should not dictate what they are going to pay you for your equipment. If you operate a fixed wing aircraft for fire suppression with the government of Alberta, you can tell them what your tariff rate is. If you operate a helicopter for fire suppression in Alberta, they will tell you what rate they will pay you.

Why do we let that happen? Because it's always been done that way? Not a very good reason.

Hope everyone at Gemini has a good season.

 

2007

[212wrench]

I notice no one has mentioned the customer paying unused minimums.

[chopperman]

How does B.C. forestry hire helicopters at full time bases? In Alberta we are on a rotation with what ever other operators there are locally. When they need a intermediate (for example) they call the operator who's turn it is on the rotation, then next time they call the next guy and so on. When it's the same rate this is easily done. How would they do this in B.C. if one operators rate is 100.00 per hour cheaper do they keep calling them?

Curious as to how this works.

The Alberta forestry rates are better than most and with no averaging and mins we are happy. I can see your point though if you are getting more at home.

Have a good summer 2007 and fly safe.

[xrkyle]

Since when has the customer dictated the price of a commodity?

 

Since when has it NOT? In Canada, you only have to look at the grain trade in the prairies. All those family farmers are price takers. Contract logging companies in BC, the mills are price setters, the small logging outfits, price takers. Philosophically, Google's business model follows this as well - every start up and YouTube.com it acquires, it sets the price, take it or leave it. Customer's being price setters is quite prevalent in any free market economy where there are few customers and several suppliers.

[T-rex]

Reality Check here guys......If you don't like the rates............don't fly for them!!!! ASRD rates have been fair and over the past have paid out 4 per day, not averaged, and not a 3/4/5 daily hire, any other provinces or agencies out there can say that? BC is no better or no worse, you as an operator can choose the pasture you want to feed your cows in, if you don't like the food in another pasture, don't go there!

 

BCFS is so famous to 'phone around' and see what is available. I love it when they do this on the friday of a long weekend....We usually say, "Alberta has picked us up since Tuesday, Sorry !!! But let us know when you WANT to hire, vs phoning to see AVAILABILITY!"

[Blackmac]

As an ex-Fed contracting officer, I have to agree with xrkyle and T-Rex, who have a complete understanding of de- regulation.

 

I have stated before for the uninitiated that your Tariff rate and regulations are not worth the paper they are written on unless they are accepted by the customer.

 

If a customer puts out a Request for Proposal with stated requirements and states that the lowest priced bid meeting his requirements, as stated, will be accepted, you will be awarded the contract. Deviate and you are non compliant and your bid is not accepted.

 

If a customer puts out a contract and states what a/c he wants and the equipment required, including air crew requirements and what price and how he will pay, that is his privilege as long as it is within the laws governing such requirements.

 

To make a long story short, if you are willing to accept the customers requirements and accept the contract under his terms and conditions, you have no choice, if you want the work.

 

THAT IS WHAT DE-REGULATION IS ALL ABOUT AND HAS BEEN IN EFFECT SINCE 1987.

[2007]

I believe that there is a slight difference between grain farmers and helicopter companies, but that is another topic.

I don't know of too many helicopter operators that would let a mill dictate what they are going to pay a helicopter companies per cubic meter of wood that they pull off a hill. Most would give the company a rate and if the company doesn't like it they will look elsewhere.

I never indicated a problem with the rates paid by Alberta, but if you want someone to tell you what they are going to pay for your equipment...well there's your pasture.

To the overinitiated, hopefully you are wearing steel toed boots because when you have to upgrade that old fleet of yours, you may have some difficulties.

Just trying to be part of the solution rather that part of the problem.

 

2007