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My 2 cents, Thankfully I havn't ran into this problem to any extent. I was all over ontario last year on big fires and small and not once was ever asked or expected to stay in any place that was not within CARs guidlines. We did however stay in some places that were nicer than others. On several occasions we had the officials ask us if we were happy with our accomidations and also offer us better places as the rooms came avalible. On most fires we are not the first to arrive (mediums) so in most cases we don't always get the best rooms. But as the fire line becomes less crazy the O teams start sorting these things out. I find that if you show up on a fire in any province the respected government guys and gals are more than willing to make sure you get your full 8 hrs of sleep. Also big fires thankfully don't always happen close to a Holliday Inn, Its part of the job. And also I have been on fires close to towns were there is great places to stay and still some guys are bitching so I guess we'll need H.E.P.A.C to help sort that one out. Good Luck Fly Safe





P.S Want to be treated like gold, Fly Airtankers :lol:

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Last year in Red lake there was what has become to be known as the R44 rebellion where all the pilots at the end of the day of flying jumped int 1 machine and flew 15 minutes to the closest town. Well I'll tell you there was some real kicking and sceaming there amongst the MNR control freaks for that one.


Let me clarify something here. I was at R44 last year. The pilots were alowed to go into Ear Falls (eventualy). I however still was sleeping the the Bell motel (during the night ofcourse) and during the day to get rest for the nights work I was given the choice of a 40 degree tent or a moldy mouse infested trailer, Or my choice....The bush.


In my opinion..and that is all it is.. in 2007 this is bullsh*t. I hope that this sort of thing doesn't happen this season. I don't know if I will be so axcepting.


I have no Problem sharing acomidations but acomidations would be nice.


Have a great fire season.

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In 45 years of aviation I've lived in some not so nice conditions and some spactacular ones. At ALL times it was me who was in control of that situation and I wasn't delegating that responsibility for me to any company, Provincial Government or Federal agency. That's the way it was long before any such thing as CARS, ANO's, Air Regs, Unions or any Workplace Safety Rules put in place by any government.


I've been put up in accomodation much better than I deserved and along with me went my engineer because if he's good enough to fix my a/c and keep me operating, then "f*ck with him and you f*ck with me". Those who don't like that or approve of that attitude will kindly notice me piloting an a/c departing the nearest airport or landing pad. If they look real closely also they might even find mistletoe hanging from my coat tail on occasion as I leave. It ain't open to discussion either and calling my company hierarchy, a Union or my wife ain't changing it. If any of the foregoing folks "back me up" is co-incincidental at best because "the buck stops with me" at ALL times because again......I delegate that responsibility to no man/woman.......and my mom stopped holding my hand a very long time ago. I gave-up EXPECTING "back-up" from anyone when I reached the Age of Majority because sometimes you get it and some times you don't, but "expecting" it is really very naive and puts one on a very steep learning curve until they learn different.


I've also slept in bad conditions and I won't list them here because some have been unbelievable even after all these years. Again, that also happened with my approval, but it "cost" someone, someplace, "big time" for me to do so. Since that was understood beforehand, it saved all the bitching to HQ over phones and/or HF radios afterwards. Threatening me with loss of my job if I didn't do such and such has had no effect on me whatsoever because I was looking for a job when I found that one. In all of my career I've been threatened with job loss or treated badly by my company on few occasions and the vast majority have given me what I've given them......their best/my best. Those who didn't have learned quickly that I can also "fire" companies.


So put up with what you feel you must and put up with whatever ignorant way your "prima donna" pilot treats you, BUT remember at all times that it is being done with your approval and acquiescence. Unfortunately, in aviation and also many other trades and professions by the way, you may feel that you have to stoop over and "assume the position" in order to keep said job. If you chose to do so, then that is also YOUR personal decision for YOUR personal reasons. Do NOT expect though that as the "act" is being performed on you, that those doing it will at least reach around and grope you a bit or kiss you while they are doing it.


The foregoing can be considered a "rant" by those who care to, but it is the one that I've always passed-on to all the "newbies" to the industry who have "stars in their eyes" and were/are starting to assume the familiar position already. If asked for advise they have received the full adult dosage without names being included. Therefore, being a co-jo with me one time involved a lot more than learning about knobs and buttons on a flight deck. These were not new ideas at all, but were hammered into my thick skull by a family that had been in aviation since 1917 and had also been company owners, fixed them and flew them in peacetime and wartime........AND been "shafted" in some way at one time themselves. To those I've "bored' with this piece, you have my apologies. I felt it was time.

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Golly Cap! You must be feeling better!


And I agree. I've made the choice a few times to accept less than ideal, and have had better than, at other times.


BUT, always have included my wrench, 'cause he's the one that makes it all work. Without him, I just have a nice lawn ornament...

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None of this should be an issue.........

and not because of Provincial policy, or CARs Regulations, but because of your company's policy.


If you are forced to put up with the conditions just mentioned by Swede at the R44 rebellion,

you should get in your helicopter and leave.

Then at the first possible moment (if you haven't already, and before MNR does)

you should call your Ops Manager to explain the situation.

If your boss is worth working for, he will back you up 100%.


Remember that before all of this you must act in a professional manner.

No yelling, swearing, threats or personal abuse of the people on scene.

Simply and clearly explain your COMPANY'S policy, then leave if such requirements aren't met.


It works for me and my boss.

He wants me well rested just as much as I do.

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I have seen some pretty crappy places myself, in my short time here, And I agree, There should be some standrads, and I will join HEPAC at the first possible oportunity to lend my support.


Anywho, If I get a room, then my Engineer gets one (if I carry one, not ususally in a light or intermediate). Last year at Quetico Park in Ontario (Fort Francis) I had 3! They all got separate rooms. Excellent service by the OMNR, no complains at all,


Then there was Armstrong 2 years ago... Shared rooms with my engineer (did not mind sharing, just the room)... Armstrong did not exactly increase my want for ****** motels tho... But again, better than a tent!


Thanks for the Rant Cap, we should meet for a beer one day, I am not too far away from ya!

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Good points guys and my "rant" was just a reminder to keep things in perspective. We are not the only profession or trade that has earned the valid Right to complain about some of our working conditions, employers and rules instigated by all kinds of agencies and people. Sit down some time with a long haul truck driver who makes just as much money as you and maybe more. He's away from home as much as you and probably more, plus that piece of machinery he's driving costs lots to buy and operate also. His hours of operation are similar to yours and he too has a log book and the penalties for being "creative" with that log book can be costly. Make that a large coffee too because you're going to be a while hearing about his also valid concerns and complaints.


Ahhhhh, but he's a truck driver and probably doesn't have a good Union representing him anyway. That may/may not be true, but I got a next door neighbour that is an ex-Captain with Air Canada and last time I checked they have a fairly large and good Union themselves. He happens to be named Bob Pearson and he had an excellent, unmarred flying record with Air Canada. He happened to be the central character in an event dubbed "The Gimili Glider" and glided a 767 from over NW Ont to make a dead-stick landing on an abandoned RCAF airstrip almost in the center of Manitoba that he just happened to know about because he lived not all that far away.........and everyone walked away unscathed. For that feat he was acclaimed by the USAF, the RAF, the FAA and a large host of international airlines and flying organizations worldwide because until he did it, it was deemed impossible. Air Canada crapped all over him and his vaunted Airline Pilots' Union disappeared like the snows in summer. I've seen his walls and all the trophies and awards that he was accorded for that feat, but none from AC or his vaunted Union or it's Reps.

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The tale of the guy who was in charge of the airbus that landed in the woods is a sorry one as well...

Cap - my wife and I were thinking about starting a motel, but we couldn't find the place where they got the crappy furniture from! :)





Albert -------- never mind the furniture. Just make sure that you got a fantastic cook, good-looking waitresses, a great pub, great bartender and a special hidden stock of quality Single Malt Scotch for SPECIAL guests and occasaions. Ya just gotta get your priorities straight when you do that friend, so screw the furniture. :lol:

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