407's

[CTD]

I'm more worried about the people that are being lost. Screw the helicopters - they build them everyday.

[Heli Ops]

CTD - Agree wholeheartedly. My point was why arent FAA looking at PHI more closely. They seem to lose quite a lot of machines.

 

Heli Ops

[CTD]

And that is a good point. I'm sure there are some raised eyebrows down there after this rash of accidents.

 

I'm not ready to throw a rock at PHI yet, though. The entire GOM appears to be having problems with this aircraft, and that has me thinking environment.

 

Whatever it is, I hope it's soon fixed.

[Over-Talk]

WOW Heli-Ops, that's quite a statement.

I looked up the accident database and couldn't see that PHI had lost "quite a lot of machines". Especially considering how many helicopters/407s that PHI operates.

Though there are several incidents in the Gulf of Mexico area, they are from a variety of causes, and from a variety of operators.

Can you please explain the data for your findings, or would a polite retraction be in order?

 

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

 

Edited a few hours later. Note my own retraction below.

[407 Driver]

PHI has had a run of very bad luck this year. Someone on justhelicopters.com posted that this is their 12th accident this year on various types. This is the 3rd fatal that I know about. Not good for anyone. CTD, no-one else in the Gulf seems to be having these 407 problems? Air Log has a big fleet down there as well.

 

Mag, in my new spirit of politeless, did you notice that I never mentioned to anyone here what happened to a new _______ in __________ last week

[RDM]

I believe this whole rash of accidents, the last 1 1/2 years has nothing to do with any one type of aircraft.

 

Look at some of the accidents they have had:

 

Aircraft flipping on decks,

 

CFIT,

 

Settling with Power,

 

and yes a few mechanicals.

 

I believe that it is a symptom of a far more seriuos problem in the GOM.........money and greed, by yes, the oil companies. And until they (oil companies) decide to put a stop to it be prepared for more unfortunate accidents.

[Over-Talk]

Heli-ops, on further examination of the database, it is me that owes you the apology and retraction.

After I tried a few more parameters in the database, I also noticed there was a tragic number of incidents involving PHI in the last two years. They covered a variety of machine types, causal factors, and locations. (It is because of this array that I had missed many events when I searched earlier today).

I should have known you would have your finger on the pulse of what's happening in our business !!

 

I hope they can turn things around, as this company was a pioneer in the concept of Safety Management, and had a brilliant safety record just a few years ago.

 

There are also many other incidents occuring with other operators in the Gulf, and the States that service the Gulf. I am sure this area will be seeing alot of FAA attention in the near future, and hopefully less attendance by the NTSB.

[twinstar_ca]

were you thinking the salt environment down there, CTD?? if that's the case, i wonder what kind of shape 407D's birds were in when they arrived... if i'm not mistaken, they came from PHI did they not??

[407 Driver]

When we flogged the 3 - 350B2's we bought 3 - 407's from PHI. (to join the 3 already in Canada)

The PHI ships were from S/N 60 to 150, or 96 to 98 models with about 4,000 hrs each on them. They were dirty, but I've seen that with other maritime operated aircraft. I fondly remember scrubbing many a 58T that came back from Singapore with OKie. Ah, those long days using MEK in the confined 58 tailboom, who needs all those extra brain cells anyway.

Generally, the maintenance seemed to be OK with the PHI ships, but as CTD says, it is a harsh environment to operate in. I wonder if all the electronics can handle it? I know that we're pretty darn careful with water around the FADEC harness junctions, etc.

 

Time will tell just what is going on? It is interesting that only one company seems to be having the problems down there?

[Heli Ops]

Over Talk - Dont worry about it. No offence taken.

 

407D - It doesnt just seem to be PHI, although they seem to have some problems that need addressing, look at Tex Air and the number of incidents or accidents they have had in the GOM over the past year or so. What is it, about three or four machines now. Not acceptable in any area of the industry.

 

What I cant work out is it is both daytime and night time where the problems are occuring. Now if it was single pilot night VFR then Yes I woulc understand the problem but its a whole range of things. Makes you really wonder.

 

I wouldnt think there would be much stress on the aircraft as they are basically flying from Point A to Point B, landing and then off back to base again. Is this right, or can someone else enlighten me here.

 

CTD - You might have some insight into any sort of problems that the 407 has with salt water, apart from when it gets submerged. :shock:

 

This short of shite shouldnt have to happen before people start taking note and changing things. It should be preventitive action not reaction, as seems to be the case in the GOM.

 

Anyway just my thoughts.

 

Heli Ops