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Bell 210


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Skids Up ----- you missed the point. The originals were all built primarily to fill military contracts.The more cases of tomato soup you buy, then the price for each can drops if you buy truckloads. Their very beginnings were also a result of the awarding of military contracts for R & D and development. Take those factors away and it's very doubtful that they would ahve existed. Ditto for Aerospatiale in France because 100 % of their a/c were developed and existed primarily to meet French military contracts.

 

Such was the case once again for the Bell 210. It's very existance is the result of Bell once again trying to win a US military contract. It did not and the amount that would be sold to the civilian population would not have allowed Bell to re-coup their development and R & D costs for the 210.......and therefore it ain't going to happen.

 

Do not forget that the 204, 205, 212, 206, Hughes 500 and the Hillier 1100 are all results of attempts to win US military contracts. Once again, ditto for the vast majority of the French R/W industry. Remove the militaary from the equation over the years and this industry would not be as far advanced and sophiscated as it is.

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Skids Up ----- you missed the point.

 

Now come on Cap. Didn't really miss the point, just pointed out that because they are already tooled up for it, (thinking the 205 here) shouldn't cost a bizillion dollars to make some more.

 

It's a proven design and has served well. And still would if they started the production line again.

 

While that might be a point of discussion about cost of doing so, R & D is NOT a factor. Only when you want to do new again, does that expense factor in.

 

And yes, we in the civilian world have benefited greatly from military development in all aspects. Civy's can't afford it, but we still want the benefits. If only Bell would quit trying to do one better, and build the proven design again..., but don't hold your breath. Right?

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If you think about it though how many 205s would they sell if they made them again. I know people are desperate for them in north america but are we the only ones? I honnestly have no idea but its just a question. I dont think they would have stoped making them if the demand for them was always there would they? I mean they still make jetrangers.

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I would think that is part of the problem. How many 412's would they sell if operators could choose the 205. Where there is a military need, it will always override the civy need.

 

I suppose that we are a really small market in the grand scheme of things. Too bad.

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Skids Up -------methinks you had better read-up on what the 210 was all about and how much was spent doing R & D. It IS NOT a carbon copy of the 205 as is so often stated, with just a set of 212 M/R blades, a 212 trans and an upgraded engine. If that were the case the industry could have did it all by themselves and in fact did so with the -17, -17A+ and ++. The 90's were still young yet when I flew my first 205/-17 and that was long before anything happened concerning Bell 210's south of the 49th. You may well have the tooling in place to remanufacture something, but if it hasn't been manufactured since the very early 70's, expect costs on all fronts to have risen a staggering amount over 35 years.

 

I understand full-well why operators want the 205 in droves once again, but I find it very sad that all North American manufacturers have to offer them in that Class at an afforfable price is something that reeks of 1956-1959 technology........ and a veteran of a war that took place before most flying it today were born or out of 3-cornered pants. Perhaps that demand also explains partly why there are over 1000 more 205's existing in the world now than Bell ever produced.

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You are right Cap, I was not clear in my comments about the 205 and 210 even though I do know the difference.

 

And it is sad that the old technology is what will do the job today at an affordable price. Wouldn't we all want new if we could, but who's going to pay?

 

The laptop I write on cost a couple of grand about 5 years ago. Bottom of the line, and by todays standards, a bit of a dinosaur. The same money now will buy quite a bit better technology.

 

Yet the machine I fly now, cost about 8 times as much as it did when it was new, is considered "old", and can't be replaced at an affordable price.

 

Sad indeed. Wish it wasn't so...

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I had a conversation about the 210 with BHC's Business development manager last year. He told me the 210 is/was an effort on the part of Bell to quickly offer new mediums to the industry due to the shortage of 205 hulls. But of course they couldn't just be satisfied with just building 205s as they were originally designed. They decided to incorporate almost every upgrade ever STC'd for the 205, including the 212 tranny and blades, and so on and so on. They then realized that they would need to have this machine certified in it's own right and there the problems began. They basically started with a project that was supposed to go to market within 12 months of launch, and it ended up taking close to three years to achieve certification. They had trouble achieving certification because standards of airworthiness have evolved for certification of new aircraft and they had to meet these requirements with the 210.

 

Bell was a victim it's own sales and engineering departments who went to town with this project and disregarded the real needs of its customers (what a surprise)... :down:

 

The 210 hull starts/started from a UH-1 hull from the same pool of mothballed hulls used for the UH-1Y program. The hulls go/went back onto the jigs to be zero-timed and "civilianized".

 

As for the comment on the UH-1Y having potential as a civvy ship; well, look at the UH-1Y and it pretty much looks like a 412... :mellow:

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