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What Do You Want An Assn To Do For You

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That's a pretty fair list of ideas already.


To follow-up my last post and tie-in to bubbleboy's post, 'money talks'. Money talks even louder than statute law to most when it comes down to it. Like I said, no matter what resolutions the assn might assert, the operators will not support them unless they want to. How would they want to? Somebody previously mentioned enhanced safety programs which are seen as win-win-win all the way around. To build on that, bubbleboy mentioned insurance. Insurance companies have a ton of discretion and leverage in this industry and always will. Though the Canadian heli industry is a relatively tiny market for the insurance industry and as such seems to lack the benefits of much competive spirit between the insurance companies at present, I think that this tendancy is due for a shift anytime now. Thus, the time may be right to sell the assn idea and ideals to one or two companies (maybe someone like park.ca for example to endorse the assn by offering discounts compamies who work with the assn.


Also, I will never support the idea of a radical striking body of blue collar yahoos with job action signage. I support intelligent productive harmony among the entire Cdn heli industry without whining and with the odd rib recipe thrown in the quarterly. Canada is set to flourish and the helicopter industry with it. I'd be nice to maximize the growth.


Just my thoughts.

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How about creating some kind of apprenticeship or mentoring program for all the 100hr wonders... I.E. creating a work term. Would give operators a chance to see how genuine a new pilot is when it comes to their attitude and what kind of work ethic they have. Also gives a new pilot some hands on experience so even if they don't end up working for the operator they have a work term with... they have some real field experience. Guess this would be an add on to creating any kind of standardization of the various flying schools out there.... something that could only benefit the industry.


just a thought....

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100ft/bubbleboy; Your posts have a great deal of merit, however given the great diversty of Canadian operators I can't see how it a common set of rules could be applied and be fair to all, and enforcement would be a nightmare.


Maybe I am a cynic or need more rose colouring in My glasses but I think You are pissing into the wind.


:elvis: :elvis:

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Hey big "E". I thought you wore them big gold framed units with the dark tint? Rose coloring might work well with them big side burns though! ;)


I do not pretend to speak on behalf of a future Association or it's objectives, but here's what I think:


It would be unwise for an Association to become involved in any sort of "enforcement" as it would apply to owners. I can think of no quicker way to lose support of owners than to suggest to them that an Association will have a list of rules to be followed or else. In fact, the legal guidelines for an Association would prevent it from wielding that type of power. Our Directors will need to work with the owners.


Let's face it, in most (not all) cases owners and operators are our friends and should be treated as such. I believe an Association should respect the risks these people take in operating a helicopter company in the current marketplace. Equally, owners need to respect the risks and responsibilities we assume on their behalf.


What an Association should enforce is the professionalism of it's members. Let's be big enough to step up to the plate and admit that in general a professional attitude is sorely lacking. I would be a liar to suggest that I haven't had some brain farts that could have been costly if not for dumb luck. For me that is unacceptable. Once an Association adopts professionalism as one of it's goals, would it look smart not to belong to such an organization?


Elvis, we cannot force either owners or fellow pilots and engineers to play along. We can only encourage people to give this thing a try. Everybody admits that it is time to turn things around (no arguements from the people paying the bills I'm sure). This may be the catalyst. Yes, we may be pissing into the wind, but let's settle this issue once and for all rather than speculating ad nauseum about the pros and cons of an Association.


BTW what's the secret to a good deep-fried peanut butter and banana sandwhich?

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- Insurance standards throughout the industry, requirements for operators to provide and seek insurance companies that will provide good additional coverage.


- Pension requirements (like they have in Switzerland), where every pilot contributes to one pension fund, no matter how many different companies they work for, so that after however many years in the industry you leave with that many years of contributions to a pension fund that you can draw on. I think that it also was a requirement that the company matches the employees contribution up to a certain amount. It is government mandated. Too many old pilots realize late in their careers that their little nest egg is "little".


- Start with some things that can immediately help the pilots (& engineers - didn't mean to leave them out, sorry) and will not be too controversial, get some visible success, which will get more membership and then tackle the tougher battles.


- I think a lot of the issues that can be dealt with in an association affect both pilots and engineers and including both in an association will help eliminate whatever differences or conflicts arise between the groups from time to time.

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I've re-read this topic and now see that perhaps what would work well might be an emphasis on bubbleboy's professionalism widely supported. Elvis I realize that not all operations can be pigeon-holed in specific terms (mind you, that pissing on myself did feel good for that first 20 seconds or so).


No one knows the realities of the day-to-day ops of a helicopter company like its pilots and engineers; not even the owners. I therefore see an effective budding organization as one who could, like I earlier suggested, attest as a body to perhaps the insurance companies to the professional practices in place at their workplace and propose a 2% cut in premiums for their company for meeting the association's standards of safety and professionalism. That's got to be worth gold to the insurance companies to hear such an endorsement from a group of organized professionals who know the industry and the operation and are not gaining from that endorsement any direct monetary benefit. I see that as having more weight than a company owner asking for a rate cut "because my company runs well." I earlier used the words "disable shady operators". I think it'd be better put "advantage the professional operators among the industry".


Does anyone out there work for a company worthy of such an endorsement and reward?


Nomex......great points too.

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Guest bag swinnger

Yes I work for such a company. and it took me five years to talk this company in to hiring me. a couple of stops with the so called "shady operators" along the way, that left me wondering if I was one of the lucky ones to ever have been chosen to fly or maybe cursed for what I have since witnessed. I too have read the article of the "rotor rookie" written by leanne schmidt. and although she has a bad story to tell it is far from the worst that are out there. and if i could help do just one thing to help clean up that part of the industry I would. It is a small industry and I have taken great pride in being able to talk good pilots out of taking positions with known bad companies, part of the" what goes around comes around" philosophy, but have always thought that there could be a better way. I know that there are lots of pilots out there that consider themselves fortunate to be employed by a good company and they would not want to jeopordize what they have by forming anything. The operator that I work for is very approachable and open, I have just breifly talked of this subject in the past with him and found that his as is many peoples opinion is that unions terrify them and have a hard time seeing it as any thing other. and he is quick to point out that as there are bad companies there is also bad pilots. If our industry was twice the size of what it is I feel that we would already have some form of an organization, a strength in numbers sort of thing.

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