Ppc's

[Torque Split]

Wonder what the rate will be for Approved Check Pilots to due PPC's on pilots at other companies now that Transport is getting away from this.

 

Any one willing to quote some rates if they have used outside check pilots in the past.

[T-rex]

I am sure the rate will be fair $ value. Operator's that may leave training to the last minute might have to pay more. TC charges $200 per ride, but no cost from TC for the transport to and from your facility as well as their other costs, hotel and meals. I will be in that ball park, for my services, which may include a daily fee as well.

[Skids Up]

but no cost from TC for the transport to and from your facility as well as their other costs, hotel and meals.

 

Sorry, but with TC (west coast) flying around in 2 new 407's doing "free position flights", to do rides just doesn't cut it.

 

There is a cost, and we pay dearly... :down:

[PAX]

I am sure the rate will be fair $ value. Operator's that may leave training to the last minute might have to pay more. TC charges $200 per ride, but no cost from TC for the transport to and from your facility as well as their other costs, hotel and meals. I will be in that ball park, for my services, which may include a daily fee as well.

The math seems to show that cost of ride, daily fee, travel, meals and hotel will bring the cost of a PPC by a designated examiner to $1,000+ A good gig for the examiner, maybe we should raise the rate to TC and still be ahead of the free lancer or we must again raise the rates to include higher PPC costs.

[autorevs]

Maybe a factory course or check ride in a full motion simulator might be a better solution.

[T-rex]

Unfortunatly Transport doesn't have the people power to conduct PPC's on everyone, they like us are recruiting Inspector's (pilots) for their departments. There is no reason to jump out and say PPC's will be out of reach for any operator. The ACP route gives the operators flexability. Operators can still conduct PCC's in house via other means if this is what they want, there is no need for PPC's there are exemptions for this if the operator chooses to use this method.

[Guest Jerry]

As we know, TC is definitely getting out of the PPC business.

 

Here's what it costs to maintain ACP authority annually. I am using a Bell 206 & 212 for simplicity.

 

You must do annual recurrent training and a PPC on one of the types on which you are authorized to conduct PPC's.

 

Bell 206:

 

1 hour Bell 206 recurrent training = $1200 (fuel and instructor in)

0.5 hour for PPC = $ 600 (fuel in)

Cost of TC or another ACP = $ 500 (cost of VFR check pilot)

Total = $2300 (approx)

 

But if you do both single and multi-engine PPC's, you must do your recurrent and PPC on the most complex type.

 

Bell 212 VFR:

 

1 hour Bell 212 recurrent training = $3200 (fuel and instructor in)

0.5 hour for PPC = $1600 (fuel in)

Cost of TC or another ACP = $ 500 (cost of VFR check pilot)

Total = $5300 (approx)

 

Bell 212 IFR:

 

2 hours Bell 212 recurrent training = $6400 (fuel and instructor in)

1.5 hours for PPC = $4800 (fuel in)

Cost of TC or another ACP = $ 800 (cost of IFR qualified check pilot)

Total = $12,000 (approx)

 

So, how many PPC's do I need to do ANNUALLY just to break even?

[AH1]

I remember when PPC's first came about, and it was a knee jerk solution for a safety concern way back in the cowboy days. I don't think they are relevent now, as a check ride with the chief pilot is the same thing. I can also remember taking time off from a job flying 8 hours a day on fires to go prove that, oh by the way, I can fly. What a waste of time, but it was politically required. I was curious about how long it would take Transport to tire of the idea, but I guess it took the infusion of new blood to see the obvious. Get rid of PPC's, we do it in house anyway.

[Guest Jerry]

AH1,

 

I completely agree with you. I too, remember the days when you did your recurrent with the C/P and went to work.

 

TC is actually moving back in that direction - look at TC Policy Letter 178. If you are carrying 9 pax (CAR 703) or less in single-engine machines you don't need a PPC at all, only a PCC - all subject to certain conditions, of course.

 

Everyone still needs a PPC on multi-engined machines, but you can extend it to 24 months.

 

Unfortunately, the C/P and designated training types who are conducting PCC's still need a PPC, and that's where it could get expensive.

 

How can I afford to maintain ACP authority doing rides only on C/P's (and their check pilots) unless I charge a huge fee? TC has yet to square that circle.

[Bacon Inbound]

For the original post...

 

The DACP we used, charged us $325 plus 40 cent/km. We used our own AC. That's for the CP. All other PCC's are completed in house.

 

A different DFTE (for a CPL ride) charged $370 and we went to his location.

 

We can still get TC to come down when they're available. You just have to find an inspector who likes to fly.