Cargo movers

[leggo]

Blackmac,

 

I'm a little confused by your first.

 

"The smaller 4-5 pax helicopters when supporting the average drill camp and or survey camp is usually used to move the camp as required. Most of the time the camp manager will ask to use the cargo nets as it would take up to much flying time to try and pack everything internally.

When a load of drill pipe or even the drill itself is dropped, it''s usally in the muskeg or whatever and easy to recover. The camp manager has loaded a valuable piece of survey equipment in the net, the net is dropped and destroys the equipment. The equipment can''t be repaired as it is a one off. The project is cancelled and the customer is seeking his start up costs which are substantial as he states that the carrier was responsible to move his equipment safely."

 

Many moons ago, but after 1987 I was a doodlebugger on heliportable crews (overseas). We, not the pilots or mechanics assigned to our crews, loaded any nets; we'd just get some training and bollockings/whinges from the pilots. As everyone realized the possibility of nets being dropped other than where/when intended, we always had a hard-and-fast rule: anyone who packs a survey or recording instrument or a radio in a net gets fired. Put it in the cabin. If it doesn't fit, get a truck, get a boat, ot get 20 people and carry the #$%^ thing, but under no circumstances will it go in a net.

 

Although there were a few inadvertent pickles on these crews, as far as I know nobody ever sued the helicopter operators - not even that time that imbecile Jojo dropped a net with amongst others blasting caps over the jungle, and we had to hike out and find them all.

:rant:

[Blackmac]

Leggo: The PIC of any aircraft fixed or rotory is responsible for all cargo loaded onboard and or slung under a helicopter. I donot know how much experience you have with our litigous society, but I can tell you if I was contracting a helicopter or airplane, I would in no way do anything except help the pilot load his aircraft by handing him the cargo.

 

As for loading a cargo net for slinging, again I would ask the pilot for a waiver if he wanted me to load it and hook him up.

 

Far to many pilots except loads that are not properly loaded and or fly akwardly in forward flight. Return to starting point, reload the net and put a droge on it if required.

 

Drillers are the worst bunch for overloading the cargo net and or when slinging rods. You can tell as soon as you pick up the load, put it back down have them remove weight. They are already aware of what you can carry, so there is no excuse. Normally the camp manager or drill boss gets the idea fast because he is not getting any credit for the time you are waiting for them to remove some weight.

 

There have been numerous sling loads dropped and paid for by the companies that dropped them.

 

Any company that is contracting a helicopetr and uses it for slinging, both the helicopter company and the contracting company better have something in writing or you could pay mucho lawyers fee's if the helicopter company drops something valuable.

 

The idea's stated by Randy G have alot of merit.

[leggo]

Blackmac,

 

Thanks for the explanation. We probably didn't bother suing since we were working in Africa, as a local daughter company of a US company, and the helicopter operators were local entities of a third nationality... Obviously nobody'd gain there but the lawyers.

 

Oh, and about drillers: the same guy who formulated the "not in nets" rule had this to say about drillers:

 

The only way to treat 'em is to put 'em in a cage, and put the cage around the corner so they can't throw #### at ya!

[Blackbeard]

Interesting Thread Blackmac, I like what you have to say, and agree with most of it. Will add some comments of my own though.

 

If I was a customer with a load worth several thousand, or several million, dollars being moved about by helicopter, I would be **** sure to have insurance coverage of my own for whatever the circumstances may require.

 

I agree that pilots and operators must take responsiblity for external load but let us not confuse this with FAULT. Blame cannot always be placed with the pilot for a dropped load, even if it is not rigged correctly. Like aircraft accidents, there are usually many factors contributing to the final result including inexperience, company pressure, customer pressure and peer pressure; to name a few.

 

Also, this is one area where I feel that the operators themselves are deficient. There has never been a lot of emphasis put on care of cargo hooks, nor training of crews on correct rigging. Somehow it is all just expected to work right. I do remember that when I was with Okanagan (yes the dreaded Orange) we had a small slinging booklet that gave a bunch of information on rigging. It would appear that most pilots learn about load rigging from experience and, sometimes, failures.

 

The one place where I found hooks are well cared for is the heli-logging industry. This is because both the pilots and engineers recognise that their livelihood relies on the proper functioning of the hook(s).

 

Having been involved with follow up on lots of dropped loads I am always very reluctant to blame the pilot. All to often it is the fault of the equipment, whether it be poor sling gear, poor rigging, poor hook maintenance, or simply the bizarre.

 

I remember when flying seismic some years ago for CHC we had a series of lost longlines. Never seemed to lose the loads, just the lines, and perhaps an empty gravel basket. This was when CHC were using the yellow household plug conectors for drop cords. Wouldn't you know it, the final answer turned out to be the yellow plugs were flying up during flight and jamming between the load beam and the body of the hook, forcing the keeper up so it could not prevent the shackle from slipping off. Of course once the load was lost it had forced the plug out so it was again hanging free. It was by chance that Wayne Grover that finally spotted the problem.

 

Anyway, finger pointing of the kind that has been posted on this forum in the last month (ref: The CHC Shaft Thread) is out as far as I am concerned, unless one is fully cognisant with all the facts.

 

One final word, as far as flying with the hook armed or dis-armed - pilots choice. I have thousands of hours of slinging and have never dis-armed the hook, and have never lost a load from finger trouble -yet. Fingers crossed.

[PedalJam]

Very well said " O dark one " ..... :up:

[Blackmac]

Blackbeard: Welcome aboard, an interesting opinion on cargo movers.

 

Actually, if you were being sued for dropping a load that was slung by helicopter, you would have to prove that pilot was not responsible.

 

" I agree that pilots and operators must take responsiblity for external load but let us not confuse this with FAULT. Blame cannot always be placed with the pilot for a dropped load, even if it is not rigged correctly. Like aircraft accidents, there are usually many factors contributing to the final result including inexperience, company pressure, customer pressure and peer pressure; to name a few."

 

" inexperience, company pressure, customer pressure and peer pressure; to name a few."

 

These again are vued by a third party , such as a judge, as mitigating factors, but the PIC has the final say. The PIC is the professional for that particular job as he was chosen to do the job. The PIC always has the option of refusing the sling load for any valid reason and any company that pressures a pilot to exceed his capabilities or sling loads that are unsafe are not worth your life.

 

The writer of a particular "V" read by all and I got into a discussion about this actual topic and the consensus was that some pilots are sent to do sling jobs by inexperienced operations people and the results are catastrophic. The result was as follows, the pilot had every indication that he was maxed out, weight wise after a couple of attemps. He was on a long line and the load began swinging, he was running out of cyclic and pickled the load.

 

Once airspeed is reduced the load will slow it's swinging arc and if you are not overweight to start with, you can get it under control, continue on, or return to the take-off zone.

 

I was involved with this initially and after the fact, once the load was dropped. There is a video of the whole operation and should be part of a safety scenario.

 

The well intentioned pilot that was chosen by the company, was a mistake, (the pilot was not current on longlining with that type helicopter) the peer pressure that the pilot was exposed to, was tremendous.

 

Pilots have to learn to get rid of the "MACHO" attitude and admit to themselves that they cannot always do everything.

 

REMEBER MOST ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY THE PILOT EXCEEDING HIS/HER CAPABLITIES AND/OR THOSE OF THE AIRCRAFT. :shock:

[Blackbeard]

:up: Great stuff Blackmac. My point was about how we in the industry view flying underslung loads, and some of the problems and issues that arise.

 

I agree with you totally, that if an incident goes to a court of law then the a whole different set of rules apply.

 

That is because lawyers have the luxury of hindsite, and can analyse a spilt-second decision over a period of months, or even years. Too bad for the poor pilot who had to make a decision, based all all of his skill and acquired experience, in a fraction of a second if his decision was not perfect, as there will always be some smart-alec lawyer around to tell him he was wrong and how he should have reacted.

 

I am saying that the issue of cargo is something that every pilot and operator in the industry needs to take much more seriously than we do now.