Hobbs Time And Flight School

[justfly]

...what about full on autos? you slide on the ground the hobbs stops?

 

does the learning?

 

does the learning ever stop from doing full-on autos? :shock:

[Jane]

There are two issues here

 

1) what is the best measure of training/working time

 

2) what gives the best value

 

There are various valid viewpoints for (1), but (2) seems open and shut to me. If your school charges the same rate for air time (skids up to skids down), that others charge for flight time (engine on to engine off), then you are getting better value.

 

Jane

[Coastal]

From the student's point of view, I have to agree with Jane on this one. For the schools that I've visited, it appears that most charge based on a Hobbs type system (which varies from type to type). I can see the point that Winnie and 412driver are making: that the student is learning even when the a/c is on the ground. However, given that most operators record airtime for maintenance, as a paying customer/student it's tough to justify paying for flight time. So...can see both points, and if I were an operater I'd be more on side w/ 412 and Winnie, but as a student, skids up/skids down is hands down better value (all else being equal).

[412driver]

remember, when you are in the field, your hourly earning now goes on the hobbs. so what goes around comes around............

[Coastal]

remember, when you are in the field, your hourly earning now goes on the hobbs. so what goes around comes around............

 

Hmm, very good point 412d. Hadn't thought of that...All operators should charge on Hobbs....starting next year!!

[rotorheadrob]

Any good instructor will only start charging when the machine is ready to fly. Warm up can vary greatly between a hot day when the machine has just been flown compared to a cold day and the first start. As any good instructor is more interested in your education than income, if you think you are getting ripped off you are at the wrong school. I fly a bell 47 G4 and there is no hobs system that I know of approved to attach to the collective. So being the honest guy I am I note time when the machine is ready to fly. Also I expect my student to keep track of there own flight time as they should be making there own log book enteries.

 

Training should always mirror the job site, so take a pen, get a small not book and take down the time, as a pilot should.

 

Just my opinion

[412driver]

now rob, being the honest guy you are (and i know you are) shouldn't you mention that you charge $500.00 an hour compared to BC Heli that charges $450.00

 

so if the student "loses" that .1 on a hobbs meter then theoretically that could add up to 10 hours or $5000.00 bucks!

 

but wait, your 100 hour course is $5000.00 more :shock: and for the same licence at the end.........

 

so if the student wanted to spend 50K he could go to a "hobbs" school and finish with 111 hours which many of our students do in the way of a night rating. actually they only need an extra 5hrs for that so they would have the licence, a night rating PLUS $2750.00 to go towards that road trip! or perhaps 6 hrs more training i.e. longlinging to give them that much more of an edge over the next guy

 

FOR THE RECORD: I think rob runs a great show and is a great instructor! i am only inserting a "competitional" jab

 

also for the record, i don't have a choice in how the student gets charged. that's up to the boss but this year in manitoba on fires it went like this:

 

cockpit checks complete

battery on

boost pumps on

main fuel and start fuel on

set throttle

START CLOCK $$$$$$$

engage throttle

complete flight

close throttle

fuel boost and fuel valves off

STOP CLOCK $$$$$$$$

 

just my 8 pesos worth

[rotorheadrob]

412,

 

How the season treating you , stop by for a bull @#$% some day.

 

My input was simply to state that the student should always be charged fairly. I had no idea the 300 even had a hobs. If you want to get into who gets what for thier money, ok. I found the 300's numbers on schweitzers web site.

 

My 47 G4 1900 lbs empty weight

2950 lbs gross weight

1050 lbs usefull load

43 ft overall leangth

260 hp max power

 

Your 300 CBI 1088 lbs empty weight

1750 lbs Gross Weight

662 lbs usefull load

30 ft overall leangth

180 hp max power

 

 

As you see the G4's stats are very close to a 206, interesting how my usefull load is almost the same weight as your whole machine. Long line?, I've seen you guys out with the empty 50 ft line in the infield, I think making an aproach with an empty 100 ft line and taking off with 300LBS on the hook from a confined area is much more practical training. I also believe my ability to add 300 lbs of weight on the external racks helps teach a better aproach, instead of always doing it at the same weight. Add onboard video recording of every flight! I won't even get into Auto's. You know as well as I do, more weight feels different. You are right BC HELI is less expensive than PREMIER HELI TRAINING but " it doesn't matter what you are buying, you get what you pay for". The machine you train in is one piece of the total package, the instructor is the biggest part, but think of how much more you could teach. I'm not very good at math but I think my Bell 47 G4 is alot more machine for your money than a 47 G2, 300 or 22. The same licence in the end is true, but what you do in those 100 hrs is not.

 

No offence intended Rob, you knew I was going to have to respond to your comments, you also do a great job, a good rep is hard for an instructor to get, and you certainly have a great one.

 

Rob

[412driver]

no offence taken at all amigo :up:

 

we could go back and forth all day long, i think the point that we both have made here is that it really is important for prospective students to investigate EVERY school.

 

if all them prospective students back east would realize how much better it is to train in BC.............

 

it seems like the "Rob's" in the Fraser Valley have a pretty good name. (you too HL56 )

 

as to the summer? seems to be winding down. it has been very good for me. i'll be over 300 hours of revenue :up:

 

but i gotta mention, i was doing full on autos in the 204 this spring, and ya, weight makes a difference. i couldn't believe how much easier they were to do

 

see ya in the valley in september

[Skids Up]

just my 8 pesos worth

WOW! Wish I had a job like that...

 

When I trained, (about 159 years ago it seems some days) what went into my log book was what went in the AC log book. And at the end, I had a 100 hours. So I guess maybe I got ripped off doing all the cold starts, long warms ups, long cool downs (47/turbocharged) and not getting credit for it.

 

Funny though, don't ever remember any employer asjing if my time was air time, flight time, a good time or a bad time...

 

Experience is a lot more than what is in the logbook. Usually that is only there to satisify TC that you can write a test or take a ride.

 

Find a school that has good equipment, an instructor that you can ride with and get along with, for a long time, that offers a variety of training conditions, and has the experience to teach you something at the same time.

 

Pay attention to what he is teaching everytime you are around him, (hint: not just while flying) and spend little or no time worring if the hobbs is connected to the collective, skid tubes, the front door of the office or ...

 

Also I expect my student to keep track of there own flight time as they should be making there own log book enteries.

 

I would think that every student would have a "daytimer" and mark all up and down times, starts, lifts, etc... just like real life.

 

After all, isn't that what they are training for??