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Interesting discussion, with some very valid points. There's one major problem here though. As mentioned already, we are a people that are used to beng "taken care of" by our governments. The result is that we are, next to Sweden, listed as the "most over-governed nation" in the Free World (this is not my opinion either). Ergo, the points made by Blackmac are all valid from my view, but that's as far as they will go....HERE!. In general terms and with an overall picture in mind, we Canadians get very uneasy very often when "private enterprise" takes over. That feeling was rampant in my youth and has diminished over the years because of the performance of our esteemed political representatives.......but it's still there and when someone talks "free enterprise", we love to point south and say things like " ya, well what about .........?" Sadly, we trust our governments to protect our interests just a "tad" more than "big business" because we think we have control over the governments and can throw them out. It's extremely hard for a Canadian to name anything major, where some governments' "shadow" isn't invloved somewhere. Besides Blackmac, you know that most Canadians don't want to do anything that might copy the US way of doing things because anything American just has to be a bad idea. :)

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Leadingedge & Cap, you said it very well, I just wonder when people will smarten up.


I notice you are getting to bed a bit earlier Cap.


Cheers, Don



PS: Leadingedge, as an afterthought re government oversite on contracts. Most government contracts that have problems, were poorly written in the first place.

When I was with the government, I and other people in the department managed contracts in excess of 1B.

When the scope of work is well written (what you expect) and the contractor can answer accordingly, there is very seldom any problems.

Should the government be contracting for something new, you can ask for letters of interest and get feedback from any industry and learn from there.

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Blackmac -------- thanks ......and those later hours are a factor of something else I have on the go. :(


One thing I didn't mention is that "one on one", the government agencies could match or beat "private industry" if it could operate within the same parameters........but it doesn't or can't. Few of the Municipal, Provincial or Federal employees are paid on the same scale as their peers in private industry..........that says nothing about the differences in benefits and expense accounts. The working hours also differ in many cases. This all is classed in business as "overhead" and restrictions, that do not allow government agencies to go "one on one' with private industry. There are few "aviation types" that would not be over-joyed to have the benefits that their peers in government have and the security that goes with. Unfortunately, if I work a week-end it is not classed as overtime and I don't have the choice of either having that on my paycheque or taking 4 days off that I have now earned. Private industry would "choke" at an arrangement like that and could not withstand the resultant overhead that would ensue. Aviation is not unique at all in this regard and if one checks with other parts of private industry, they will find the same feelings echoed even more so.

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Cap, Macster


It's all about greed and protecting jobs! Our federal and Provincial governments (excluding the oil rich nation of Alberta),and it won't be long before OTTAWA try's for the grab!- Traditionally Canadians are a fair peoples who would forgive a little to help support those other Provinces without the means. Between 1998- 2001 I worked very closely with many Federal Canadian departments to assist developing Nations come into compliance with the ICAO SARPS in compliance with Safety oversight Audit requirements. with the end goal of CAT 1. If you guys really want a take on what's happening with greed on a Global Scale, PM me!. I may be able to arrange a breakfast or lunch meeting with my friends from ICAO, Delegate members- we all went to the same fine Canadian Boarding schools. Know any former KGB guys in the diplomatic corps?


PM for futher information

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Leadingedge -------whatever you do. don'y start comparing us to other nations. Using our Canadian ethics, morals and beliefs, most of rest of the world is so corrupt they aren't worth saving. Try travelling the world and not paying $20 USD or a British 10 pound note for things that we take for granted in Canada. The simple act of filing a Flight Plan is "enhanced with speed" when you slide that note under the sheet of paper as you file. If you don't, you may wait up to a week for clearance........and don't leave without it buddy, or you may be met by men with SMG's at the other end. Got a new set of M/R blades stuck at the Customs Brokers perhaps.......reach into your pocket first before you open up your mouth and spout Canadian "values".


I understand fully what you have said and agree, but please use some other analogy because that one wasn't a good choice. Its very hard in other parts of the world to have even a "smidgen" of Canadian values when you are only making $700 CDN per year and you got part of that from selling off your oldest daughter. It costs money to have principles, morals and values.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Where I get out of my tree is when they take advantage of their subsidised position to undercut other operators, and do it illegally, like the MNR do in NS.


Well Phil, you'll be pleasantly surprised to know that the Nova Scotia DNR is going to retire another 500 as they did a little over a year ago when they replaced it with a brand spanking new MD 500, allbeit Pink :blink: but only this time the unknowing Nova Scotia Taxpayers are spreading our wealth(deficit) around and purchasing an Eurocopter EC120 :fart:


I wonder why the NS DNR was flying Guy Lafleur around today? <_<


Most likely due to the fact that we can't do it for free :rant:


It's awfully hard, almost impossible to compete against the NS Government medalling in the private sector not to mention the EMS Plum that was handed out... besides who are you going to complain to without it falling on deaf ears :down:


Talk about your dirty politics!!! :shock:

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Hey Chev, now you know why I got fed up with it! I know the local TC guy wanted to go for them like a rat up a drainpipe, but knew that Ottawa would backpedal! And having only one IFR-equipped 212 that only does 200 hours a year when they have it offline for a week for a 100 hour check is just a plain criminal waste of money. 500s? Good machines, but we were taking guys across rivers in one trip while they took two! They should replace the whole lot and get B2s or 407s, and get an AOC. At least then they would be legal.


OK, tin hat on......




PS - jst to make you jealous - I now work 9-5, Mon-Fri, no commercial pressure and no passengers - and I get paid!!

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