Use Of Illegal Drugs/Alcohol

[Skids Up]

If an employer notices something that is an issue get rid of the employee. Don't trample on everyone's rights just to "feel good" about getting rid of a problem.

 

There has to be trust in this world, and testing everyone makes it known the employer does not trust its own employees.

 

Hard to 'get rid' of somebody just because you think you 'notice something' about an individual these days.

 

So if an employer 'trusts' you to fly/fix his equipment, what assurance do you give that you are not drug influenced? I would think that the abuse of drugs/alcohol in the workplace has been far worse that employers abusing the drug testing.

 

It would seem that IF an employee didn't come to the workplace under the influence, there would be no need for testing.

 

I think the 'trust' has been abused too much to be trusted anymore...

 

Unfortunately, (because of the actions of some), many may be tested to get the few, but what other choices are there?

[Heliian]

So, let's go and test every cpl in canada. But let's not stop at alcohol and ilicit drugs, test for all precription and otc meds too, you will find that there are many more cases of pilots flying with undocumented medications like pain releivers and anti-depressants than anything else. Now we'd really be in a pilot shortage.

[helidude]

Companies aren't testing because they don't trust their employees, they're testing because their customers require them to, and in the event of a worst case scenario, they have to be able to look victims families in the eye and sit in court and say that they did due diligence in trying to avoid this accident. If the companies don't test then are they not partially to blame if some of their employees are working under the influence? True there are ways to fool some of the tests but the operators have to try something even if it's imperfect. If you only test after the accident then there's no point in testing at all.

So you pee in a cup every once in a while, big deal. This is like the guys who are against photo radar. If you don't speed, then what do you care?

What you do on your own time is most definitely the employer's business if it affects your performance when you're on the job. You don't have to do drugs or abuse alcohol and you don't have to work in aviation either.

[marc]

So you pee in a cup every once in a while, big deal. This is like the guys who are against photo radar. If you don't speed, then what do you care?

What you do on your own time is most definitely the employer's business if it affects your performance when you're on the job. You don't have to do drugs or abuse alcohol and you don't have to work in aviation either.

 

It really comes down to this whole nanny state philosophy of shifting the responsibility of an individuals actions away from the individual himself.

 

If an employee f's up and causes harm to machinery or persons because of his deliberate use of a mind altering substance, it is his failure and he has to deal with the consequences.

 

If an employer gets complaints or notices less than stellar performance and does not step up and fix the situation before such an incident, it is their failure and share some blame.

 

What you do on your own time is definitely NONE of your employers business. If you show up on their time not ready to do your job to the highest standard then it definitely IS their business. But it is their business to rectify the problem by dealing with the individual of concern, not by making everybody else have to give up just a little more of their personal liberty for "the greater good".

[Skids Up]

So,

 

What you do on your own time is definitely NONE of your employers business

 

But,

 

If you show up on their time not ready to do your job to the highest standard then it definitely IS their business.

 

I wonder,

 

But it is their business to rectify the problem by dealing with the individual of concern, not by making everybody else have to give up just a little more of their personal liberty for "the greater good".

 

So to be clear...,

 

You can't be tested, and only if "someone" notices less than stellar performance, should they step in to do something to fix it, lest it be considered "their failure".

 

So where does the individuals responsibility lie?

 

They can do what they want on their own time, and if tested it would invade their privacy, but if they do screw up, it is the fault of the employer because they didn't recognize a problem and then fix it, before anything happens???

 

I'm reminded of the saying: "We didn't know you drank at all until you came to work sober one day."

 

Who do you want to evaluate you on a daily basis, to make sure that there aren't any "problems" and that you should be allowed to continue with your work day? How many would have a problem with that??

 

Showing up at work, READY to work, (no drugs or alcohol), then having to pee in the cup should not strike fear into anyone!

 

If you can't pass the test, then you're cheating your employer.

[pilot5]

Well let me tell ya! Back in the late 80's and early 90 up in Lg's in northern Quebec it was not uncommon for the boys to sneak out after a long day and puff on a little reefer behind the trailers. It was known to the Operations manager and CP of the company at the time. They decided to turn a blind eye. Today i think for verious reasons including the awareness of the effects of drugs and acohol on performance the modus operandi has changed for the better. I cannot think of any person in my age group and older that would not admit to knowingly drinking and driving on occaision back when. Today like I mentioned there is a greater sense of awareness...

 

Testing is in todays world a part of doing business and most often the contract requires as stated in previous posts... But take it a little further and apply it to the crews we operate with... Why not test all provincial fire fighters too.. Wonder what such a policy would do to improve safety??? After all, accidents and incidents are not always traced back to the PIC or engineer and the frequency of operational accidents surely in a larger degree of cases could be traced back to onboard crew. Just a thought.

 

P5

[SuddenStop]

Skids up

 

 

I think you took some of what he said out of context. But I dunno

 

what I believe to be true is that you're an adult...you know what time work day starts, you know how long the effects your drug of choice last on you, so in that context both the first and second quoted text hold true. You're in control of that

The third, is where it comes cloudy for me as it what exactly it is that the company will do to rectify the problem. You all heard my views earlier, and I stand behind offering help long before they show you the door. Thats respect from the company to the individual.

earlier I saw a post that mentioned trampling the rights...well, i think the rights of our customers and passengers far outweight the rights or ourselves and employer. So in the interest of their safety, and if they request assurances such as drug tests, then they should get them.

 

I have no reason to fear a drug test except maybe missing the cup a little....so advanced apoligies to the tester who has to handle my drippy cup.

[splitpin]

Why not test all provincial fire fighters too..

P5

 

'Cause there would be nobody left!!

[Grasshopper]

Skids up

 

 

I think you took some of what he said out of context. But I dunno

 

what I believe to be true is that you're an adult...you know what time work day starts, you know how long the effects your drug of choice last on you, so in that context both the first and second quoted text hold true. You're in control of that

The third, is where it comes cloudy for me as it what exactly it is that the company will do to rectify the problem. You all heard my views earlier, and I stand behind offering help long before they show you the door. Thats respect from the company to the individual.

earlier I saw a post that mentioned trampling the rights...well, i think the rights of our customers and passengers far outweight the rights or ourselves and employer. So in the interest of their safety, and if they request assurances such as drug tests, then they should get them.

 

I have no reason to fear a drug test except maybe missing the cup a little....so advanced apoligies to the tester who has to handle my drippy cup.

 

 

Bang on, SS! Wish I'd said that. :punk:

[marc]

So,

 

 

 

But,

 

 

 

I wonder,

 

 

 

So to be clear...,

 

You can't be tested, and only if "someone" notices less than stellar performance, should they step in to do something to fix it, lest it be considered "their failure".

 

It would be a failure to knowingly overlook someones concerning behavior.

 

So where does the individuals responsibility lie?

 

They can do what they want on their own time, and if tested it would invade their privacy, but if they do screw up, it is the fault of the employer because they didn't recognize a problem and then fix it, before anything happens???

 

Two different scenarios.

 

Yes, people can do what they want on their own time, and being arbitrarily tested does invade their privacy. These people are all of us hard working pilots and engineers who show up every day to work.

 

Yes, if an employer willingly ignores "Drinky McSnortaline" as just being an 'eccentric' and something happens, the employer is at fault for not enforcing adherence to a reasonable work environment.

 

 

I'm reminded of the saying: "We didn't know you drank at all until you came to work sober one day."

 

Who do you want to evaluate you on a daily basis, to make sure that there aren't any "problems" and that you should be allowed to continue with your work day? How many would have a problem with that??

 

We are all evaluated every day by our managers, colleagues, and customers.

 

Showing up at work, READY to work, (no drugs or alcohol), then having to pee in the cup should not strike fear into anyone!

 

You are right! I am not afraid at all. That is not the point.

 

We should just let the police search our cars or pockets whenever they like right? I mean anyone without anything illegal should not fear!

 

If you can't pass the test, then you're cheating your employer.

 

No, if you show up drunk, high or ridiculously hung over you are cheating your employer.