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I'm sorry I arrived a little late regarding this topic as I noticed that the admin had to put a Stop Order on the previous title. I would just like to make a statement without stirring the pot so just bare with me. From my understanding of this is a typical case of misinderstanding. The topic went astray with Rapatak's statement saying the accident was a result of "Lack of care and attention". I have seen this label been used many times before and it is being mis-used in this instance yet again. The pilot obviously had no intention of flying into the water, and I have no doubt that he was doing everything BUT not being attentive. The issue here is the fact that he had probably had never been in this situation before and was attempting to make a glassy water landing as best he could using any and all skill and technique that he "KNEW". We have all been there at some point in our career where we have been over our heads for the task at hand but were fortunate to come out of it without damaging the aircraft but with a sick sensation left in our stomachs. So all I have left to say is maybe we should stop and really think carefully about what we want to say prior to putting it to print. It's not any different in making a successful landing, "It's all in the APPROACH"

 

Thanks, and safe flying.

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in my meager opinion, as long as someone learns from someone else's mistake it's not a lost cause. I can look past the emotional aspects of a topic and understand why people get all excited and huffy about topics. The accident was tragic for someone and their family, the lesson hard learned for the pilot, and hopefully the future ramifications understood by anyone else venturing over water.

It's too bad the emotions ran awefully high, as the topic could have headed in the right direction for teaching rather than the direction it headed which was obvious.

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this accident was the focus of alot of discussion at the school.

 

i have taken students to devils lake and had them look at a nice lake but one that can have tragic results when things go wrong. it's an eye opener for them. :shock:

 

also, it finally put me back into a helmet after many years and 3 of my students immediately followed suit..... :up: a good reminder for me as an "old timer" that the young pups are watching ;)

 

this won't be the last accident but if we learn from it then there is some positive things that can come from it. we fly the proverbial glass houses gang....

 

i know i've said some harsh things lately so i say this more to myself, and that is to say, let's be careful of the stones we throw ;)

 

fly safe crew :up:

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good on you 412D for setting the example :up:

A lot of harsh things were said about the pilot in this accident and some solutions to how to land in the middle of a glassy lake using radar altimeter or downwash ripples to make it easier were suggested. The whole point to be leatrned from this is to NEVER land on glassy water away from good reference. A radar altimeter or downwash ripples might get you to the water safely for a while, but sooner or later it will bite you in the ***. There just IS NOT ENOUGH REFERENCE TO MAKE THIS OPERATION SAFE USING THESE METHODS!!! If the client wants to sample the middle of a glass-water lake, that is his decision, but it is YOUR job to do it safely and a shoreside water landing and a long water-taxi to the centre of the lake is the only 100% safe way to do that. This is coming from a 39 year pilot with a fair amount of f/w and r/w float landings.

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A lot of harsh things were said about the pilot in this accident and some solutions to how to land in the middle of a glassy lake using radar altimeter or downwash ripples to make it easier were suggested. The whole point to be leatrned from this is to NEVER land on glassy water away from good reference. A radar altimeter or downwash ripples might get you to the water safely for a while, but sooner or later it will bite you in the ***. There just IS NOT ENOUGH REFERENCE TO MAKE THIS OPERATION SAFE USING THESE METHODS!!! If the client wants to sample the middle of a glass-water lake, that is his decision, but it is YOUR job to do it safely and a shoreside water landing and a long water-taxi to the centre of the lake is the only 100% safe way to do that. This is coming from a 39 year pilot with a fair amount of f/w and r/w float landings.

 

For what it is worth: I just want to say I agee 100% with you.

To clear up any misunderstanding I may have engendered in my posts: I do not advocate the use of a radalt or for that matter the pressure altimeter as a primary reference in carrying out a glassy water landing in either a fixed wing or a helicopter.

 

Just wanted to make that very clear.

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You guys still don't get it. A RadAlt is not a landing aid. It just tells/warns you how far above the surface you are.

 

You still need adequate reference to land or bucket, particularily with glassy water.

 

A RadAlt is like a Fuel Guage. It gives you one piece of the moving puzzle that is flying.

 

How's that for an analogy, Baitman?

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You guys still don't get it. A RadAlt is not a landing aid. It just tells/warns you how far above the surface you are.

 

You still need adequate reference to land or bucket, particularily with glassy water.

 

A RadAlt is like a Fuel Guage. It gives you one piece of the moving puzzle that is flying.

 

How's that for an analogy, Baitman?

 

RedDawg

Excellent! Great analogy! Ya should write a book. :up:

Yer command of the written word leaves me stunned and amazed ( as usual ! ) :wacko:

 

FYI: Deuce fashioned a raft out of unused condoms and escaped. He is going to hide out in YUL. I have arranged a tour guide for him to visit various downtown Bars where something called "Booze" is available for purchase. He will then press on west to the edge of the salt chuck. I am still imprisoned here on "No Fun Atoll"! My Dutch and French conversation is improving rapidly. :rolleyes:

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