Hiring Apprentices

[212wrench]

I made a post in the Going to BCIT thread about Apprentices and would you hire correspondance folks or people who came out of school with a letter of attendance instead of a diploma. The question was that maybe we should open this up for some discussion. So here it is.

 

Who hires folks who take AME by correspondence? Also the schools, because DOT tells them, will graduate folks who do not meet the 70% pass mark. They have to obtain a 60% mark in the program and will be given what is called a letter of attendance. They will be given 1000 hours of credit (as opposed to 1800hrs which you get with a 70% pass mark) and will have to write their DOT exams. when they are able to prove that they have obtained the other 3800 hours of experiance when they go to get their license. Students who make the 70% grade write there exams in school and only have to write the Air Regs exam when they go to get there license.

 

That being said, whould you hire a apprentice who walks in your door with a letter of attendance?

 

What are the best attributes that an apprentice should emphazise to you when applying for a job How about after if you hire them?

[Fenestron]

I think alot of this job, particularly becoming an engineer, requires experience. whether you get some of it in school (and we know how out of date some of that training can be) or all of it in the field, it doesn't matter, as long as you get it.

If someone showed up at the door with a letter of attendance, unfortunatly, I would have their pay reflect that, but wouldn't avoid hiring them. We need to build the experience up to an engineer level as thats where the void is. I work with a few corresondance course graduates, and the only clear sign is a lack of hands on experience, so they are behind in that regard, but capable of learning and moving up without a doubt.

 

Apprentices should emphasize their work ethic above all. your marks are important, but not a true reflection of your capabilities. I've met some of the highest mark average students who were retarded with a wrench in their hand, and vice versa.

[bucktweed]

Probably for alot of helicopter operators right now if any apprentice showed enough interest to come to tim-buck-nowhere and actually walk in the door to apply for a job they would likely be hired on the spot.

Correspondence doesn't mean to much to me, there are people out there too poor to spend a year and a half away from home, especially if home is a long way from a community with a program. I've also met a couple of pilots that have taken the correspondence course during the slow winter months to gain more insight into the machines they fly and the job at the other end of the rainbow.

[Lunchbox]

I say give them a shot. I'd be more interested in their attitude. A Good attitude is easier to train. It seems the word nowadays is that there are many young apprentices with piss-poor attitudes. Just because they can pass all the courses, dosen't guarrantee that they'll be good engineers. Our company had a bunch of apprentices this year who jumped through all the hoops, but couldn't cut in the real world.

 

I'd certainly be sceptical at first, but why not give them a shot. If they have a good attitude, are willing to learn, and have a solid work ethic, we should take 'em! They'll be easy to train if they had a bit of trouble in school. I'd rather take the guy with 60% and a good attitude, than the guy with 70% and a poor attitude.

 

Some people just aren't "school people". Didn't Einstein get a D in math class?

[Skids Up]

I say give them a shot. I'd be more interested in their attitude. A Good attitude is easier to train.

 

I agree with lunchbox.

 

Mostly because when I did it, it was straight to the job and 3 years later it was done. That was on the fixed wing side, and then another 2 years on the RW side. No school, no letters, no attendence, no grades. You learned as you went by watching and doing.

 

Attitude is the key. With that, you can learn to anything, and learn to do it well. If you are in a postion to give them a shot, then give it to them, (they can always be "promoted" at a later date to another company if need be).

[justinengineer]

I am not sure why you would place someone who took correspondence in with those who failed the course. I am one of those individuals that took the correspondence route and not because I was poor as someone stated but because I had a wife and two kids and made the choice to work as well as learn. Also I took 10 transport exams which I studied for by myself ,after working 16 - 18 hours a day. And just for reference I passed them all with a 92% average. Also for the things I missed out on in a class environment, I more than made up for it with real experience . I have now been at the same company for eight years and I can tell you that every other resume I see says they were top of the class but I can tell you from experience that means almost nothing when comes the the job.

[Lunchbox]

Another thought: How much difference is there going to be between the guy with 70% and the guy with 60%? For all we know, one guy barely passed with 71% and lacked interest in the course, and the other got 69% because he had one bad test since he was dead tired from working two jobs to put his butt through school.

[212wrench]

nice input guys, let me shed some light on the 60% folks, most of them are single, in our current input four out of 29 are on attendance only. They are all single. We had one student who is married with 2 kids and struggling but he is in the low 70%. The reason is he puts effort into it. We have had students with 90% averages that are stuggling on the practical side of program ( still obtaining 70%) but we have no students who have 60% averages who have excellent practical skills. If you don't put the effort in you will not pass. Isn't hard work part of attitude? If a student can't put in the extra effort to obtain a 70% average why would you expect him to put out extra effort working for you?

[Fenestron]

hard work is definately a part of your overall attitude, but you can't ever say for certain that a guy working his butt off will achieve 60-70-90- or even 100%.....there are far too many variables throughout his or her life.

Some find learning easy, some find it hard and if your mom was a crack smoking alcholic....no matter how hard you try, you'll never achieve that high average.

 

If you're attitude fits, and your work ethic is on the mark....you can do this job with half a brain. At least the basics anyway. You may never excel and move up the ladder, but you will survive and so will the helicopter.

[helidude]

I'm currently looking for four apprentices and I could give a flying ----- what their grade is or what college they went to. If they have the right attitude and good references, we'll teach them the rest.

A student's grade isn't necessarily an exact representation of how well he understood the material or if he worked hard in school. Most exams are multiple choice and how you interpret the question and your choice of answers can make a difference. You might understand the function of a certain system like the back of your hand but if the choices given for the answers are ambiguous, then it becomes a multiple guess.

The diploma is the same no matter what your grade. Your past work experience will tell the tale whether you're a moron or not.