Engineer Shortage?

[drkrider]

I'm going to comment a few things in this thread, please bare with me.

HeliIan, the rate sounds about right for a 2 -4 year licensed engineer, higher then some I've talked to and lower then others.

 

As far as a shortage goes, I've had a few people calling lately a lot of fix wing engineers. From talking with other operators it appears that helicopter engineers are either waiting a little longer to start looking for work or have left the industry. I've been contacted by a few other companies who were looking for leads on engineers looking for work.

 

On the topic of apprentices, I definitely think we need to be bringing in new blood. The last few years I've been looking around the industry and noticing the experienced engineers are quickly disappearing. We need to bring in new people to learn from these engineers before we loose all the experience they have accumulated over the years.

 

That being said Engineers need to mentor apprentices properly, just because you (theoretical old time engineer) were handed a set of manuals and pointed towards a Bell 47 and told see you in the fall on your first day doesn't make it right. We need to be teaching them how to do things right and to have the proper attitude for the work they are doing.

 

One of my pet peeves has all ways been companies that give out Pilot endorsements like they're going out of style, yet when an engineer needs a type course it becomes a big issue. Not sure why, maybe there's a perception that a maintenance course costs more because management can see a single bill for the course cost were pilot type endorsements are often done on company aircraft and the costs disappear into the operating budget.

 

If you've had an apprentice working for you for a few years and they aren't a complete screw up, they've earned a type course. If you have treated them with respect and paid them enough to make a living, you shouldn't have to worry about them leaving right after they get the course.

 

Sean

[Hazy]

$300 day plus $25 hr in this shakey economy?? I'M IN!! Loan me your Snap On's!!

That's approx. what I got cut back to when the doom and gloom hit. Maybe i'll RENT you my tools!

[JustanAME]

Hello Heliian!

 

I can tell you that there is a shortage globally. Whether this applies to Canada today is not so clearly defined. Anyone entertaining the idea of being an AME should consider obtaining their EASA, CASA, FAA equivalents while things are still fresh in their mind as well and be willing to really travel. This is where more of the action appears to be. Granted an AME with a good reputation should always find a job in Canada, as long as the ones doing the hiring are still helicopter people and not bookworms with a useless university degree. What I have seen is a reluctance by the new generation to put up with fairly low wages compared to wages in the oil and gas industry where they usually end up working side by side. But you have to start somewhere and you will be worth more if you have lots of field experience. If you look at Vertical's Jop Opportunities, you can see where things are happening. Most of it is abroad, but most require proven experience. This might not help you if you're starting but I have heard of apprentices working in Africa, something which hardly happened in the past. I would give them a call if they don't post salaries, but I would be very suspicious of their posting in the first place. There has to be a reason why there are so many job offers out there, otherwise we would all be lined up for one.

 

 

Hello again supermechanics!

 

The company I work for is short engineers and I was wondering if there is a nationwide shortage or are we just not paying enough? I also see new ads daily from other companies looking for engineers but nobody is posting salaries anymore. Any input would be greatly appreciated and if you know someone looking for an engineer job, let me know.

 

Thanks,

 

I

[helijoe]

I have read this thread with great interest. I have been banging awqy in this industry for over 30yrs. The problem with this industry is one step forward two steps back. When the economy is booming working condition and pay pick up. Recession comes around and we revert back. I too have been told by DOMs that they have a stack of resumes and can get engineers for 25/hr.(not even labour's wage on most construction sites). A couple of years ago you could name your own rotation, now back to long tours. It is prety easy to see why after each recession there are less engineers coming back. Internet in camps is an improvement but it is still a tent camp. Apprentices take a second look what they go to a remote mine and the mine employees rotate every 2 or 3 weeks and they are expected to stay in at least 4wks and most likely longer. I can remeber going to James Bay and being the lowest paid person in the camp and I doubt if it has changed much. People outside the industry just shake their heads when you explain the pay and working conditions for the amount of responsility it entails. Dont get me wrong, I have had lot of good times, and met alot of great people, but it is still jus a job. The love of aviation is great but it still has to fee you and your family and provide decent lifstyle. If this industry can ever get beyond "the love of aviation syndrome" and become like other industries we won't be having this discussion every recession.

[Lunchbox]

Also, thank you lunchbox for your well articulated response. My question to you is what happens when the economy comes back full swing? are we going to have to hire fixed wing guys and give them type courses on their first day? Planning ahead is key to survival and the old addage "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" could not ring any truer.

 

I don't know what the best solution is. Like you say, planning is the key. I think hiring apprentices and properly training them (and I mean REAL training as in mentoring) is required, but this also requires training of the trainers (AMEs and management doing the training). How many AMEs have ever had any education on how to train/mentor apprentices, and how many AMEs/pilots go into management and get formal management training?

 

I don't know what happens when the industry picks up again. Will it be the same as about 2002-2006? I don't think the world will quite be the same again after various general economic collapses in recent years. I wonder if future AME shortages will be more due to old-timers leaving and fewer trained new people, rather than too much work out there. I get the impression that some schools are doing more and more international AME training at the expense (or lack of demand?) of domestic AME training, but I could be wrong.

[RoofProp]

Yes, a lot of the guys in school still act like they are in high school and think everything should be handed to them. which could be part of the problem( i am currently in school and am looking for a job ). the job market looks promising from going out and talking to a couple of shops, but in some ways its doesn't. One shop was looking to pay around $12/Hr, which is hard to live off of when your paying rent,gas,student loan, etc.... the only way you would be able to work at that rate would be to live at home.

[highbladedown]

Hey,

 

I am one of the oldtimers (lol). Been in the industry 37 years, M1/M2/"S" (204/205/212/MD500) and A&P - accredited ISO Q/A auditor 9001:2008, TCCA audit trained, 15 years of Q/A experiance and been looking for work for 10 months and not even sniff and I am only 53 (lol). Oh, well the food mart might be hiring. I always liked working with the young kids, they made me think and at my age it just hurts my head to think...any companies looking for a floor sweeper PM me. (lol)

 

 

Keep the corners turned up...

 

 

HBD..

[Hazy]

Hey,

 

I am one of the oldtimers (lol). Been in the industry 37 years, M1/M2/"S" (204/205/212/MD500) and A&P - accredited ISO Q/A auditor 9001:2008, TCCA audit trained, 15 years of Q/A experiance and been looking for work for 10 months and not even sniff and I am only 53 (lol). Oh, well the food mart might be hiring. I always liked working with the young kids, they made me think and at my age it just hurts my head to think...any companies looking for a floor sweeper PM me. (lol)

 

 

Keep the corners turned up...

 

 

HBD..

 

Are you looking to work on the floor twisting wrenches or to sit behind a desk pushing a pen? If its a QA position you are seeking, that's kind of specialized and probably not a company's priority in a slow economy. Have you talked to fixed wing operators?

[highbladedown]

Hey Hazy,

 

I can do all three - twist wrenches, help in Q/A functions when and where needed (pre and post PVI audits and SMS). Training is another one of my specialties and writing policy and procedures, including 571 Appendix H for undocumented parts and of course, # 3 - push a broom (lol). I forgot to add 206 series to a list of A/C types endorsed on – no Astar time other than audits and working with TCCA and DAR’s for modifications and repairs on Transport and Non-Transport Category Aircraft.

 

Yes, I have been in touch with F/W operators and been involved with structural repairs on King Air C90’s and performing contract Q/A functions for one of my structures customer a week or so a month – but would like to keep a little bit busier and plug holes where and when I can to help any Air Operator/AMO out – and willing to travel.

 

Just a short comment – I think good apprentices are a vital part to the success and future our industry. I enjoyed working with the young guys and gals, and one thing I always said treat them with respect because the one at the end of the broom (not me-lol) might be the individual one might be working for one day.

 

Have a great day Hazy and thanks for the response!

 

HBD

[Helieagle]

I have seen the same thing AH1 but I'm hoping that this is not the case.

 

I would still like to beleive that there are some people out there with a sense of adventure, who want to go out and explore the unexplored. The things that have changed in 30 years are the pay and working conditions. The pay is way better and the conditions are pretty good, even the most remote camps have internet, phone and TV.

 

Speaking of pay, how does 300/day plus 25/hr flight pay sound to you guys? This would be for one light/intermediate machine. I don't want to know how much you're making now, I just want suggestions as to what kind of rates would be considered average and what you would expect to be making these days.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

 

$300/day plus 25$ Is Pretty Good. Was Just Making 280$/day 25$ Flight Hour on Astar. But I sure Like Everyone Making more is always a Plus.