New Duty Time Regs?

[Batmat]

I know, as dxpheli mentioned in another post, that there could be changes in to ftdd regulations coming down the pipes, to come more inline with EU/FAA rules.

Seems as though 12 hour down from 14 will be the most probable result.

 

How's this going to affect everyone?

 

I for one, am now in the EMS world where we work 12 hour shifts anyway, but the odd time we do use the full 14 hours if circumstances dictate so.

So 99% of the time it won't affect me, but be interesting to see the ramifications for going over 12 (if that's what it's changed to)

 

We are going to hear all about how this change will cause the world will end as we know it. This is great, quality of life will improve etc, the customers will adapt, life will go on. We all talk the talk about safety.... now regulators are finally are going to walk the walk!

[KnuckleDragger]

So how is flying a Heli any different than flogging a Beaver around all day?

Although I enjoyed the comments that follow, what I meant was in reference to large company airline pilots who simply walk off the plane and onto the next gig or end of day. They don't have a machine to wipe down or ops gear to maintain. I've just always been curious how different folks run their duty day. Does it start when you get to work or when you get up? I've had pilots use a duty day explanation for 'no time to wipe down the machine' and found them in the bar later. Not trying to call anyone out here, just curious how folks run it.

[J31]

Like wise I am not trying to start a fight. I completely agree that operating a Heli from a fire camp is very different to the crew finishing their day on a Boeing 737.

 

However the CAR’s have been split into different levels in an attempt to reflect different operations. In their present form however they are vague as to other duties outside of flying the machine. There is guidance material that states that your rest period needs to be free from all duties. Also some other guidance http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/standards/commerce-manuals-guidance700-material-3359.htm

 

My duty day ends when all I have finished wiping down and any other “company” duties are complete. My rest period begins when I get home, the hotel room, tent, etc. allowing time for personal hygiene.

 

Cheers

[Icewind]

This was flagged by many as a very hot issue at HAC in Vancouver. :shock:

 

See - http://www.h-a-c.ca/F_DT_Submission_ENGLISH.pdf :angry:

[Skids Up]

This will be an interesting one to see how the "I just do my own thing..." (and am not going to get involved in supporting the "old man club" at HAC to fight for me) turns out!

 

May be surprising times ahead...

 

Me? I'm glad that HAC is fighting the battle with whatever support I can give...

[skullcap]

This will be an interesting one to see how the "I just do my own thing..." (and am not going to get involved in supporting the "old man club" at HAC to fight for me) turns out!

 

May be surprising times ahead...

 

Me? I'm glad that HAC is fighting the battle with whatever support I can give...

 

 

Well, thought would throw in an operator and pilot's point of view. It is not 12 hours per day duty time they are discussing. It is 60 hours cumulative over a week and one day off mandatory per week. This will effectively cause not only the operator and customer huge problems but will be reducing the pilot's pay on the job drastically. Customers whether they are forestry or a drilling company will be less than impressed and in some areas the jobs will simply not happen due to the remoteness and cost of having to have two pilots on every job. Why two pilots, well not only will you be dealing with 60 hours over a week but the one day off per week limitation. Thus you are now able to do 6, 10 hour days and then a day off. So, the customer who is limited in timeframe to get a project done will have no alternative but to request two pilots. These two pilots will now share the weeks flying and each will have to have one day off during this week. Whether the company or customer is willing to compensate you for the day off is not as critical as the fact that the hours attainable to fly will be half. This is not the same as double crewing as you will have to have time off period.

 

As a pilot who has shared jobs it is not only a pay reduction but also becomes an issue on time off, why would I want or deserve a 3 week rotation when getting one day off per week. Also, who wants a day off in camp?

 

As an operator it becomes a an issue of the number of pilots required to be on staff. Instantly my crew roster would have to be doubled and how do I go about recouping costs?

 

If anyone thinks this is good for the industry I challenge you to show my how it could be economically done. The safety factor is not the issue here as the reason it is being changed is simply because the airline unions are pushing it "because it is being done in europe and you need to change"

 

If we had two or three years to institute this policy it may be able to done with much lobbying of customers and to attain the hiring and training of crews, done quicker will cripple an already wounded industry in my point of view.

 

As I point out to anyone wanting change, it is something to want change but assume the change occurs, how is it implemented and what are the resultants, think about it clearly.

 

p

[What Limits]

So, what changes need to be made supposing that the current system is open to abuse by operator/pilot?

 

I suggest

 

42/3 banned

 

28 consecutive days on then minimum 7 consecutive days off

 

Length of duty day depends on the time that the duty day commenced

 

Example 08.00 start, duty day = 12 hours

 

One hour at discretion of PIC for unforeseen situations.

 

Example 04.00 start, duty day = 9 hours

 

Other:

 

Clear definition of day off required (24 hours totally away from the aviation environment)

 

Clear definition of rest required (I suggest a minimum of 8 hours available for sleep) (not actual sleep)

 

Your thoughts?

[skullcap]

So, what changes need to be made supposing that the current system is open to abuse by operator/pilot?

 

I suggest

 

42/3 banned

 

28 consecutive days on then minimum 7 consecutive days off

 

Length of duty day depends on the time that the duty day commenced

 

Example 08.00 start, duty day = 12 hours

 

One hour at discretion of PIC for unforeseen situations.

 

Example 04.00 start, duty day = 9 hours

 

 

 

Other:

 

Clear definition of day off required (24 hours totally away from the aviation environment)

 

Clear definition of rest required (I suggest a minimum of 8 hours available for sleep) (not actual sleep)

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

Not really wanting to get into a debate on what is needed to change as I personnally do not have issue with existing system nor do any of the people at our company to my knowledge. What is really needed is awareness to these proposed changes so, explain it to your coworkers, boss, employess to get people's awareness. It is good to have an alternate for sure but rather than spend time discussing the possible changes just get the word out what the planned changes are.