Foreign Pilots

[TopFuel]

An observation, vs. a statment...

 

The VFR helicopter industry is just a business. Like all other business, it is getting very competitive in these times. Rates lower to stay competetive, and hours are fewer and far between. The Canadian market has too many machines and not enough work, that is a fact.

 

In these down turn times, how many of these un-employed "experienced" Canadian pilots, are willing to take the pay cuts to reflect the industry, at this time?

 

A lot of the problem, is not the foreign workers, or the Companies hiring them....it is the mind set of the "wanna be" airline pilots salary/rotation...minded, bush pilots, that are really just employees in a business. A lot of these guys are not accepting the facts, they are still living in the "golden" days of good contract years, and shortages of machines and pilots.

 

Look at the rates...and put your $100,000 salary in there, and your 3 on 3 off...and come up with a sound business plan (because it is just business). Stop complaining or go into business yourself, and see how you go.

 

Said company is needs a pilot...and this is the salary. GO Canada!

 

Just sayin...

[Freefall]

Supply and demand.

 

You could apply your airline wannabe formula to a specific individual perhaps, but to suggest its a systemic problem that is such that it effect pilot supply is ridiculous.

 

Pilots are like any other job. From an employers point of view they are only worth as much money as the going rate for that specific skill level. If you have an excessive surplus of applicants maybe you are paying too much. If its the opposite then perhaps you are paying too little.

 

Pretty much everyone on earth wants to make as much money as possible not just pilots.

 

It doesn't matter if its helicopter companies or mining companies or telus, if the only way your business is viable is to offer salaries that domestic pilots are unwilling to work for then I suppose its time to consider a different business model yourself.

 

There are perhaps too many machines in Canada. Do you really think its the employees or pilots responsibility to ask to work for less so that their specific company has an edge in competitive times?

[TopFuel]

Free Fall,

 

You are saying exactly the same thing I am saying through out your entire response!

 

..."Pilots are like any other job. From an employers point of view they are only worth as much money as the going rate for that specific skill level."

 

If you are flying from lease site to lease site...are you going to pay and High time drill Pilot to do that? Is a High time drill pilot, going to accept the salary of lease to lease job? Not likely!

 

I do not see too many 7,000 hour 212 drivers getting off the boat to go take a Canadians pilot job.

 

One of the contirbuting factors is...there are not enough 1000 hr. Canadian pilots to fill the existing hole.

 

I am not saying there is not an issue with certain operators...but there is a fundamental difference to "cheap labour" and foreign work policy within Helicopter VFR flying.

[winterlog]

So, TopFuel, if you were a welder with a B ticket and there were a lot of jobs requiring C ticket welders but, not enough C ticket welders to fill the positions, the Canadian Government should allow more welders into the country? Just because the industry doesn't want to deal with the supply and demand issues in a free market? Even tho the B ticket welder is qualified to do the job? If the B ticket welder is willing to work for the C rates that's a different issue, however if the position cannot be filled but there is a qualified person to fill the job and money is the issue, government has no business interfering with the free market of supply and demand! Allowing workers in to fill a void because operators are not willing to pay a qualified person for the job because the government will step in and provide an alternative is not allowing the free market to do its job. Your solution is to allow operators to continue to operate in the free market with respect to profits, but to allow the Government to step in to help out and socialize the loses. You can't have it both ways!

[TopFuel]

Even tho the B ticket welder is qualified to do the job? If the B ticket welder is willing to work for the C rates that's a different issue, however if the position cannot be filled but there is a qualified person to fill the job and money is the issue,

 

That is all I am saying...in respone to Shakey's post about all the "High Time" guys, that he knows about, that do not have jobs.

 

If "welders" were "doctors"...I am sure you would want the government to have a program to look after you and your kids living in Ft. Somewhere....you cant have it both ways!!

[TopFuel]

I am just tired off hearing high time guys complaining why, they don't have work (that they are accustomed to)!!!

 

They don't have work...because some kid in the oil patch with 1000 hours, has taken his job!...

 

And realistically, those are the foreign pilots that everyone is talking about. I don't know any 1000 hour Canadian pilots that "should" (because they are not rejects, previously discussed!) have a job, that dont!

 

Calling a spade a spade!

 

[Freefall]

I haven't heard many high hour pilots complaining about foreigners taking their jobs. I don't think I ever have in person actually and I've been in this industry my entire life.

 

 

The issues is the low time guys trying to get jobs and there not being enough pressure to fill seats necessary for employers to consider the extra cost necessary to hire a low pilot.

 

Why would you pay the extra insurance and the extra risk and hassle and give a guy his break when you could just get a visa, pay the same wage and get a guy with experience(?).

[TopFuel]

I agree with what you are saying...but disagagree with the situation. The clients are dictating hours, not insurance companies. What is a company supposed to do with a 100 to 1000 hour guy, when they can't work as pilots? That is an industry problem, not a company problem! And company "a" needs to fly for the clients to keep his other Canadian EMPLOYEES working. It is cunundrum for sure!

 

A low time pilot must also take some accountability as well...for engaging a career as tough as this. Survival of the fittest...or smartest, hard working with a long term plan! those are the guys with the jobs.

[Skidz]

I agree with what you are saying...but disagagree with the situation. The clients are dictating hours, not insurance companies. What is a company supposed to do with a 100 to 1000 hour guy, when they can't work as pilots? That is an industry problem, not a company problem! And company "a" needs to fly for the clients to keep his other Canadian EMPLOYEES working. It is cunundrum for sure!

 

A low time pilot must also take some accountability as well...for engaging a career as tough as this. Survival of the fittest...or smartest, hard working with a long term plan! those are the guys with the jobs.

 

Who makes up the industry ? The operators. Only they hold the solution to getting the 100 - 500 hours pilots working. It's easier (and much cheaper) to hire a foreign pilot (or a Canadian who's gone abroad to "build time") who's dodgy logbook you can't verify (and don't care to, as long as Contrail et al are happy).

 

There are so many ridiculous requirements set out by many customers that are a real barrier to getting low-time pilots in the saddle (like 1500 hours PIC to fly a jetbox lease site to lease site).

 

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when a guy lays out 70 grand for a license he has a one in ten chance of ever really earning a living with. I have a hard time with the old "well, that's the way it's always been" line. I think our industry can do much better...

[Freefall]

I think the industry can do much better too.

 

Certainly there are many clients with outrageous requirements for very lame flying.

 

I don't think the customer requirements are the real bottleneck though. Helicopters are a very expensive way to get around and nobody hires them unless its the only way to get a job done efficiently. If nobody was available that was able to meet their requirements believe me they would lower them before they would just stop working.

 

Of course no operator is going to turn down work willingly but if you can't get visas you wouldn't have a choice.

 

The client would have to either pay a higher rate for the operator to in turn pay a higher salary for an experienced guy, or they would have to lower their requirements so a less experienced, easier to hire pilot could do the flying.

 

As an operator you should have to lure experienced guys with either money or a very desirable working environment for the advantage of being better positioned to meeting customer hour requirements.