Low Time Pilots

[Blackmac]

I've been stating for years that there is a pilot shortage now and in the coming years. I even stated that low timers should be given a machine and a bucket to fight fires, just them and the machine, no passengers. Also any twins should take low timers as co-jo's.

 

Well along comes Air Canada, who saw the light: :punk: :punk: :punk:

 

Air Canada Jazz to hire pilots from school

Airline says new program will not compromise safety

Tom Blackwell, National Post

Published: Monday, August 27, 2007

Faced with a growing pilot shortage, Air Canada Jazz has launched an experimental program to hire several cockpit crew every year straight from flight school, ushering in pilots with hundreds of hours' less experience than those traditionally recruited by the airline.

 

The program has left some current Jazz pilots "in an uproar," but the airline insists it can incorporate the less-seasoned aviators without compromising safety.

 

Experts say other Canadian airlines may have to resort to similar recruiting tactics as the booming air industries in Asia and Europe lure more and more experienced crew away from North America.

 

 

 

 

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Font: ****Mike Daugherty, 20, admitted he was "shocked" when the company made him a tentative job offer just after graduating this spring from Sault College's aviation program. He starts in September and could be co-piloting a Dash-8 or Bombardier Regional Jet by January.

 

Such graduates typically have about 250 hours flight time, as much as 50 hours of that on a simulator. A regular job posting that Jazz currently has on the Internet demands a minimum of 1,500 hours.

 

"There are individuals that might look at this as a negative thing, as a setback, just because we have lack of flight experience, which I totally understand," Mr. Daugherty said.

 

"That was my big question when this program first started: There's a whole bunch of us going in there with very minimal flight time. Is that going to pose a big problem? But we kind of make up for lack of experience with personal skills, management skills, and we're pretty adaptable."

 

The airline is still hiring more experienced pilots as well, but is testing out its new "partnership" with several community-college flying programs to try to avert any problems down the road, said Manon Stuart, a Jazz spokeswoman. The eight college graduates, picked for being the top students at their schools, will get months of training at the airline before starting work as first officers, or co-pilots, on actual passenger-carrying flights, and will only do that if they are deemed fully qualified, she said.

 

Brian Shury, a Jazz captain and a spokesman for the pilots' union, the Air Line Pilots Association, said he believes the program can be implemented safely, if proper steps are followed. Nonetheless, a risk assessment is being conducted to be certain, he said.

 

Not everyone at the company is happy about it, though.

 

"The line pilots at Jazz are in an uproar, even to the point of having unofficial petitions posted on pilot bulletin boards," said an employee who did not want to be identified. "Not only does the average pilot think that this hiring scheme is ludicrous, many line captains feel they are ill-prepared and ill-trained to monitor and manage ... these inexperienced co-pilots."

 

Ms. Stuart pointed to estimates that 17,000 extra pilots will be needed annually over the next 20 years just to accommodate the new aircraft that companies have ordered. "The pool is depleting and is depleting rapidly."

 

Pilots for North American airlines that have frozen or cut back salaries to recover from post-9/11 financial woes are increasingly being poached by booming, and better-paying, companies in China, Southeast Asia, India and the Middle East, said Capt. Shury. Popular discount carriers in Europe are also snapping up staff.

 

THIS IS THE TYPE OF ENDEVOURS HEPAC WILL BE PERSUING.

 

All I can say is it's about time somebody took the bull by the horn.

 

Cheers, Don

[xrkyle]

I wonder if the seasoned rotary pilots will #### all over the idea like the fixed wing equivalents are over at AvCanada? They mostly seem upset because the Jazz wages are low.

 

I think it's a great idea, any situation where a new learner is in a mentorship with someone with knowledge will usually lead to positive results. Similar to an apprenticeship.

[Blackmac]

It's amazing, 135 hits and one (well stated opinion). The A/C pilots that have a problem, need some added CRM and quit worrying about the flight attendants. The majority are over the hill, like me.

 

Cheers, Don

 

Low Timers: Input please.

[Cole]

I just read this moments after hearing of a friend from flight school (fixed wing) was tentatively hired on with said company pending the acuisition of a multi IFR rating which may or may not be subsidised.

 

The prospect that this may spread to the rotary wing side is quite uplifting (no pun intended), and seems very promising to, say, someone whos about to debt himself greatly for an oppertunity to fly.

 

It does make sense to me to invest in somone so early on with the hope that they will return that investment with years of work. It also makes sense that a low timer be given a role where they could learn a great deal without comprimising the safety of customers.

 

The question remains though... How exactly does one go about convincing BCFS and other organizations such as insurance brokers to lower minimums to allow companies to hire the pilots to gain the experience? I imagine even HEPAC would have a hard time being able to manipulate the rules unless it convinces every pilot and opperator to meet eye to eye.

 

I hope that the helicopter industry soon follows suite as im sure this is the most efficient way to introduce pilots into the industry.

[HeliFly]

Well said, Cole!

[twinstar_ca]

that i trust is where HEPAC will show it itself to be as valuable an association as those that serve the fixed wing community...

 

the sad thing is really, it's taken just as long for the fixed wing side to see the light of the value of hiring low timers and pairing them with the hightimers... and this from an industry that has been regulating its membership for a lot longer than the fling wing side...

 

time to throw your support behind HEPAC in my mind, and see if the same benefits of thinking can be sowed in enough time to reap the rewards before its too late... for both crews and companies...

[Ironclad]

I just read this moments after hearing of a friend from flight school (fixed wing) was tentatively hired on with said company pending the acuisition of a multi IFR rating which may or may not be subsidised.

 

The prospect that this may spread to the rotary wing side is quite uplifting (no pun intended), and seems very promising to, say, someone whos about to debt himself greatly for an oppertunity to fly.

 

It does make sense to me to invest in somone so early on with the hope that they will return that investment with years of work. It also makes sense that a low timer be given a role where they could learn a great deal without comprimising the safety of customers.

 

The question remains though... How exactly does one go about convincing BCFS and other organizations such as insurance brokers to lower minimums to allow companies to hire the pilots to gain the experience? I imagine even HEPAC would have a hard time being able to manipulate the rules unless it convinces every pilot and opperator to meet eye to eye.

 

I hope that the helicopter industry soon follows suite as im sure this is the most efficient way to introduce pilots into the industry.

 

 

in my limited experience and knowledge of this industry, as i am a lowtimer, i have tried to explain to the government that there is a void that needs to be narrowed.

that being the shortage of experienced pilots and the influx of new pilots.

i had tapped myself financially and yet had found some seasonal work. however i wanted more and felt that the only way to make myself a better prospect to an employer, i needed to upgrade my skills and knowledge. i was looking at an endorsement and a mtn. course.

i applied for training funding and was promplty turned down, as the government feels that there isn't a problem with the industry, (their labour market research is narrow sighted), and that the progression of a new pilot, however extremely sluggish, is standard!

they do not reconize the issue of pilot shortage, as deeply discussed here, as one of any concern.

i have been trying to enlighten them with my experiences and with what i am learning from members on this forum, that the industry as a whole, plays a big role in our economy, directly or as support.

and if not familiar with the industry, then it cannot be fully appreciated.

so, i am not dismissing working one's way up the ladder, i have no problem with that. i trying only to bridge the gap of time, by showing up with at least some basics with which to grow with.

 

in my correspondence with the hrdc ministers assistance's, it was said " Once a company hires an individual who needs to obtain more flying hours, the company must try to employ him or her in other capacities, such as dispatching for instance"

 

i had replied; "That can be difficult, as companies are looking for pilots to fill the seats

and generate revenue. If they can't find any, contracts cannot be found or

fulfilled = no work,= no money,= can't hire another employee.

What we need is some way to bridge the gap of time by providing a means of

training support to assist in getting low timers up to speed sooner.

This creates a scenario where, then the employer only has to assess ones

skills while actually out on a job, in a lesser amount of time, than to

train right from ground zero.

Which for a lot of the smaller, one or two ship companies can be quite

costly."

had also tried to explain the issue of ins.....yeea, that fell on deaf ears as well. :down:

and by the way, i had a few solid job offers, on paper, stating that on completion of said courses i would be put to work right a way. i'd be working, government would be paid taxes, and an employer would have another employee.....seems like a win win situation to me.

when i produced that to them, it seemed ignored....

 

so anyway, i'm not so sure i've given up as yet, if it doesn't pan out for me, then maybe for the rest of the up and coming.

i'm all ears to any criticism or comments.....i don't think i'm on the wrong path, i just feel that after one spends a vault load of money for ab initio training and listening to and reading what the industry is saying, why not get the government involved (training funding), one has to claim it as income anyway!!

i'm willing to share the actual letters i've wrote,and the reponses i've received....perhaps i've been wording it all wrong and someone could correct me.

 

ironclad.

[twinstar_ca]

i think that's another area HEPAC will be able to help with, IC... just gotta get them up and running to do so!! :up:

[Cole]

Well Iron, I can deeply relate to where you are coming from with the HRDC... at this point in time im exchanging emails with a representative from the local branch, according to her the average wage for a first year pilot is well into the 50g mark and there is no pilot shortage. I have, however, been offered money to enter the trades. Loans it is I suppose.

[Ironclad]

[quote name='Cole' date='Sep 1 2007, 07:46 PM' post='81061' according to her the average wage for a first year pilot is well into the 50g mark and there is no pilot shortage.

 

yea, and you know i tried in vain to explain just that, that their right, there isn't a shortage of 'pilots', just a shortage of experience!!!

 

i'm thinking that their vision is peripherally limited due to the colon's passage way.