Search And Rescue Pull Services

[Hello-bird]

Yes Golden SAR is disputing a bill as we speak!

 

Pardon my ignorance, but I have no idea how SAR works. I get that CCG AUX is volunteer and no fee is (as far as i know) ever charged. Standard CCG is obviously Federal Government. 442 Sq. is Federal / Military... But SAR, the volunteer section, who pays for that? Who pays for the helicopters and all the fuel/maintenance/supplies etc...? And don't those who are rescued have to pay for anything at all?

 

Furthermore, if they don't have to pay, why do I have to pay for an Ambulance ($50.00) when I'm in a motorcycle accident, or have a stroke, but someone who gets lost in the woods doesn't have to fork out a dime... ? Or do time. Or pay a fine?

[Guest plumber]

Pardon my ignorance, but I have no idea how SAR works. I get that CCG AUX is volunteer and no fee is (as far as i know) ever charged. Standard CCG is obviously Federal Government. 442 Sq. is Federal / Military... But SAR, the volunteer section, who pays for that? Who pays for the helicopters and all the fuel/maintenance/supplies etc...? And don't those who are rescued have to pay for anything at all?

 

Furthermore, if they don't have to pay, why do I have to pay for an Ambulance ($50.00) when I'm in a motorcycle accident, or have a stroke, but someone who gets lost in the woods doesn't have to fork out a dime... ? Or do time. Or pay a fine?

 

I was being cheeky.

 

$50 is a small price to pay for what paramedics will do to keep you alive.

 

The helicopter side of it will get paid by RCMP or BC Ambulance depending on your pulse or lack there of. ( I've seen a pilot refuse to fly for either until someone was going to sign the ticket)

 

I guess after seeing so many people kill themselves foolishly he couldn't give a rats arse if he spun a blade. (pay me)

 

Something needs to be set in place to protect these volunteers. Its unfortunate that the only people who will win will be lawyers and insurance companies.

[Hello-bird]

I was being cheeky.

 

$50 is a small price to pay for what paramedics will do to keep you alive.

 

The helicopter side of it will get paid by RCMP or BC Ambulance depending on your pulse or lack there of. ( I've seen a pilot refuse to fly for either until someone was going to sign the ticket)

 

I guess after seeing so many people kill themselves foolishly he couldn't give a rats arse if he spun a blade. (pay me)

 

Something needs to be set in place to protect these volunteers. Its unfortunate that the only people who will win will be lawyers and insurance companies.

 

Sometimes I miss the cheek.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'd have payed a lot more for the help I received from BCAS. And a fine job they do, for much less pay than their services (in my opinion) are worth... Harsh world to live in when it comes down to refusing to fly (help) until someone signs. Glad that guy wasn't who I had to depend on when I needed help.

 

My Dad owned an insurance company. He was always (ALWAYS) for the little guy. I have a few good friends who are lawyers too, and some lawyers and people working inside insurance companies do care. A lot. I guess I'm going to get a lot of backlash for writing that. But I think of my Dad when I read what you wrote about insurance companies and it's so far from his integrity, and any (very high) standard he ever upheld. My point: not everyone is like that...

[cap]

Hello-Bird ---------I was speaking of the Feds and what they expect of you BEFORE you begin your 'adventure'. Up until recently, YOU and ME paid for the hourly costs for one or more Hercules a/c out of Edmonton, Winnipeg or Trenton. WE now pay nothing because those costs are covered. Realize also, that if such happenings take place in the Provinces, then look in the mirror and see one of those eventually helping to pay THAT bill.

 

The Provincial volunteer SAR that I was i/c of at one time was under the 'umbrella' of the RCMP. I made absolutely sure of same because a helicopter from my Base may have become involved initially by the RCMP and I wanted to be able to tell Company hierarchy that their butts were covered as well as mine. I got same in writing from the RCMP Officer i/c the Regional Sub-Division at that time. There are too many lawyers existing who are 'ambulance chasers' and one must put brain in gear before anything else........or pay the price for your own stupidity and naivety also. If the bill goes to the RCMP, which is a Federal resource, then you still get to pay for the SAR bill because the RCMP operate in each Province they're in under a Provincial government contract to do so. If it happens in BC and the bill goes to RCMP Financial Services and Supply in Victoria, then the citizens of BC get to pay that bill and not the Feds. Unfortunately, this world is ran by insurance companies and lawyers and the majority of rules our governments, corporations and ourselves live by is because of insurance companies and/or lawyers dictating the rules.....or else.

[Hello-bird]

Hello-Bird ---------I was speaking of the Feds and what they expect of you BEFORE you begin your 'adventure'. Up until recently, YOU and ME paid for the hourly costs for one or more Hercules a/c out of Edmonton, Winnipeg or Trenton. WE now pay nothing because those costs are covered. Realize also, that if such happenings take place in the Provinces, then look in the mirror and see one of those eventually helping to pay THAT bill.

 

The Provincial volunteer SAR that I was i/c of at one time was under the 'umbrella' of the RCMP. I made absolutely sure of same because a helicopter from my Base may have become involved initially by the RCMP and I wanted to be able to tell Company hierarchy that their butts were covered as well as mine. I got same in writing from the RCMP Officer i/c the Regional Sub-Division at that time. There are too many lawyers existing who are 'ambulance chasers' and one must put brain in gear before anything else........or pay the price for your own stupidity and naivety also. If the bill goes to the RCMP, which is a Federal resource, then you still get to pay for the SAR bill because the RCMP operate in each Province they're in under a Provincial government contract to do so. If it happens in BC and the bill goes to RCMP Financial Services and Supply in Victoria, then the citizens of BC get to pay that bill and not the Feds. Unfortunately, this world is ran by insurance companies and lawyers and the majority of rules our governments, corporations and ourselves live by is because of insurance companies and/or lawyers dictating the rules.....or else.

 

Cap,

 

"WE now pay nothing because those costs are covered." --- by who?

"If it happens in BC and the bill goes to RCMP Financial Services and Supply in Victoria, then the citizens of BC get to pay that bill and not the Feds." --- So all volunteer SAR costs are covered by either Federal or Provincial tax payer dollars?

 

"Unfortunately, this world is ran by insurance companies and lawyers and the majority of rules our governments, corporations and ourselves live by is because of insurance companies and/or lawyers dictating the rules.....or else."

 

--- I was personally involved in a medical malpractice suit with regards to the stroke I had. Through that experience, I learned (in a profound way, that the limitations of words/language can not accurately convey) that "Law" does not always mean, support, encourage, or facilitate justice. So I can appreciate what you're saying here... However, my Father taught me that insurance is in place to adequately protect and compensate for loss, should loss arise. And that Laws were in place to support, protect and uphold justice. Although I hear what you are saying (writing), and have personally experienced the less than civil/dignified effects and exploitation with regards to these facts you have mentioned, I have to stand for something better. And that has to come from seeing the tiny slivers of good that I do see & also in believing that something better is, in fact, possible. I have to fight for this standard, Cap. Because the consequences not doing so (living in THAT kind of a world), are ones I am not willing to endure.

[Skidz]

I don't want to argue the stupidity aspect of the Blackburn's unfortunate adventure, but what I can say is that we're getting our panties tied into a knot for nothing here. As someone pointed out previously in the thread, when lawyers file a suit, they automatically name as many people as possible, and then the list gets pared down before the lawsuit actually gets anywhere.

 

As an example, in 2001, I had a head-on collision with a drunk driver. I was driving a Dodge Durango, he was driving a Honda Civic. I saw him coming and had time to come to nearly a complete stop before impact. Other than tearing off my front axle and triggering the airbags on my truck, my girlfriend at the time and myself were unhurt. The drunk did four 360's and slammed into a utility pole backwards about 300 yards further down the road. The utility pole was old and dry. It broke into four pieces. Three of those pieces ended up piled on top of the drunk's car, and the fourth remained suspended in the air, still attached to hydro, telephone and cable wires. We pulled the drunk out of the trunk of his car, still buckled in his seat. All he had was a small cut on his left ear lobe. If there hadn't been so many witnesses, he would have been found dead, drowned in the ditch beside his car .

 

Anyways, to make a long story short, about a week after the accident, I was served by Hydro-Quebec, who were sueing me for the destroyed utility pole. I went ballistic ! It actually made ther papers. I called a journalist, and they love that kind of story. Anyways, I got a letter of apology hand-signed by the president of Hydro-Quebec 48 hours later. Hydro explained that they automatically sued all parties in any accident involving their property. Nothing personal (no kidding).

 

Mr Blackburn's lawyers have named a whole lot of people in their suit, but they'll need to prove willful negligence, and I don't see that happening here.

[3BX2]

we're getting our panties tied into a knot for nothing here.

 

Easy for you to say Skidz, BUT if you are a Director of the Golden SAR Society, and you are faced with the potential of loosing personal property due to this Lawsuit ... however trivial and stupid it is, you may feel more strongly.

 

[Hello-bird]

Can't get your panties in a knot if you don't wear any.

[drkrider]

One of the issues that has been raised with this law suit is that for years PEP (BC) and AEMA (Alberta) have been telling us voluteers that we are covered for WCB and liability while we are tasked on a search, rescue, civil emergency response. Well it turns out that's not the case.

 

Golden SAR from my understanding was able to afford directors liability insurance, but that's not the point they are trying to make.

 

When the $&@€ hit the fan the government shruged their responsiblity to look after the unpaid professionals who are subcontrated to them via the police.

 

I've been involved in ground SAR for over 20 years on local and provincial levels and have worked my way up to being a certifed SAR Manager, I can tell you there is enough to worry about on a call out with out worrying that your going to get sued for makng decisions based on the limited information you have at the time or decisions that rest in the hands of the tasking agency.

 

Most smaller groups simply can't afford to get liability insurance. We are 100% fund by donations and good will. We have to pay for all training and equipment costs our selves. Adding the cost of insurance would break my local group and most other small groups.

 

 

dr

[Gary Watson]

Fact of life in Canada and the US regarding being sued even when you are not at fault or have nothing to do with the occurance. All AMEs should be aware of this as it really applies in our part of the business.

A number of years ago we had one of the aviation-specialty lawyers give a presentaion at a Western AME Assoc symposium. According to him:

 

The lawyers will sue everyone and then it is up to you to convince the judge that you did not have anything to do with the circimstance ie. RCMP didn't advise SAR about the signals; or you worked on a certain helicopter 20 years ago and recently the pilot flew it into cumulous granite. In both cases you had nothing to do with the situation.

Your legal costs to extract yourself from the lawsuit could be over $50,000 and you have no comeback for that cost on whomever sued you .