Hac

[Skids Up]

Interesting that no one has mentioned HAC yet.

 

Did anyone go?

 

Did anyone enjoy it?

 

Just kind of curious...

[skullcap]

I didn't go.

[Icewind]

Some very interesting presentations. Too much overlap of tech, info and committee sessions. Much larger trade show. Nobody won the Lotus. Probably average attendance for Vancouver. Mild optimism about the near future.

 

I'm guessing that the more frequent contributors to this forum weren't there.

[Auto Relight]

Yawn.

 

A bunch of owners getting together so they can tell one another how well they run their respective outfits, only to return home and continue with the status quo. The forestry "Best Practices" is a wonderful case in point, yup, seeing so much higher degrees of professionalism out there each summer, and boy, have they really managed to get rates up to acceptable level, and the conditions crews work in have really taken a wild upturn. :down: How they stood up to BC, AB, and Sask on fire hiring is also commendable, who needed expenses for crews anyway???

 

There are some really stellar owners out there, and in my experience, few of them have much to do with the HAC beyond paying dues.

 

AR

[vortex]

Yawn.

 

A bunch of owners getting together so they can tell one another how well they run their respective outfits, only to return home and continue with the status quo. The forestry "Best Practices" is a wonderful case in point, yup, seeing so much higher degrees of professionalism out there each summer, and boy, have they really managed to get rates up to acceptable level, and the conditions crews work in have really taken a wild upturn. :down: How they stood up to BC, AB, and Sask on fire hiring is also commendable, who needed expenses for crews anyway???

 

There are some really stellar owners out there, and in my experience, few of them have much to do with the HAC beyond paying dues.

 

AR

Actually AR you may not be as well informed as you think...in regards to the "forestry best practices" I believe 2011 is the first year it will be utilized, so if you've been looking for improvement because of that document, you might have been looking a little too early. As for getting rates up to an acceptable level, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the HAC steers clear of getting involved with rates because I think price fixing in Canada is still illegal. If you actually knew anything about the NWPTA that BC, AB and Sask were forced to abide by, you may also know that they consulted trade lawyers before deciding what was now the legal way for them to conduct their business. This trade agreement was not their choice and this was beyond what the HAC would have had time to lobby against. If the HAC is as useless as you believe than you must be attending the flight & duty meetings to personally try and stop the airline unions from imposing a maximum 60 hour duty time in 7 days as they are proposing. Yep, after 5 days of fire fighting you'll need at least one day off if they get their way. Hopefully you're there fighting that because somebody should be...oh wait, the HAC is because thats what the "owners" dues are for. You probably benefit from the HAC and obviously don't even have a clue that you do...

[Auto Relight]

Spoken by someone who obviously seems to have a rather vested interest.

 

Two quick seconds to consider my post and one should realize that I am not referring to price fixing... but if that's what you'd like to run with, please feel free. As for the Free Trade agreement that governs the BC/AB/Sask fire rules, yes I also have a decent understanding of it too... just so you know.

 

Yes, HAC has been a wonderful organization over the years at promoting a higher standard in the industry AMONGST its members (there are some real class acts out there) and when operator v operator disputes do occur, the favouritism game is on full speed ahead. The amateurish conduct of several board members over time has been laughable at best. I won't give a specific example here to avoid embarrassing anyone, but if you know as much as you claim to about the inner workings of the HAC board, then you'll have little difficulty in figuring out what I refer to.

 

Oh, and to address your comment about me benefiting from HAC and something about not having a clue, I'm pretty certain nowhere in "HAC" do the words pilot or engineer appear. It is an organization that tries to benefit owners, not workers, hence HEPAC et al trying to get representation for the masses.

 

Anyway, believe what you will, I'm sure nothing I can say will change it.

 

See you out there somewhere.

 

AR

[vortex]

Spoken by someone who obviously seems to have a rather vested interest.

 

Two quick seconds to consider my post and one should realize that I am not referring to price fixing... but if that's what you'd like to run with, please feel free. As for the Free Trade agreement that governs the BC/AB/Sask fire rules, yes I also have a decent understanding of it too... just so you know.

 

Yes, HAC has been a wonderful organization over the years at promoting a higher standard in the industry AMONGST its members (there are some real class acts out there) and when operator v operator disputes do occur, the favouritism game is on full speed ahead. The amateurish conduct of several board members over time has been laughable at best. I won't give a specific example here to avoid embarrassing anyone, but if you know as much as you claim to about the inner workings of the HAC board, then you'll have little difficulty in figuring out what I refer to.

 

Oh, and to address your comment about me benefiting from HAC and something about not having a clue, I'm pretty certain nowhere in "HAC" do the words pilot or engineer appear. It is an organization that tries to benefit owners, not workers, hence HEPAC et al trying to get representation for the masses.

 

Anyway, believe what you will, I'm sure nothing I can say will change it.

 

See you out there somewhere.

 

AR

AR, sorry if I misunderstood what you were referring to in your original comment about "get the rates up to an acceptable level" but that just sounded to me like the HAC would be encouraging collusion and I actually don't know much about that part of their mandate.

As for the statement that I "know as much as you claim to about the inner workings of the HAC board", I actually never claimed that nor did I mention the HAC board in my post...but I think I know what you may be referring to. I suppose you get what you get when board members are volunteers. The information I mentioned is actually from the HAC website and meetings at the convention.

It looks to me that the HAC was formed by a group of people that wanted their voice heard collectively and HEPAC has had the same opportunity to do so.

btw-I'm not an owner, just a worker that wants a better industry.

[Auto Relight]

 

 

btw-I'm not an owner, just a worker that wants a better industry.

 

No worries. Me too, but unfortunately I've been around way too long for much optimism anymore. It's seems to be a race to the bottom on so many levels, the HAC is just one shining example among many unfortunately. Such is life.

 

Have a good day,

 

AR

[chopperman]

No worries. Me too, but unfortunately I've been around way too long for much optimism anymore. It's seems to be a race to the bottom on so many levels, the HAC is just one shining example among many unfortunately. Such is life.

 

Have a good day,

 

AR

So AR why don't you take all your wisdom and knowledge and step up as the President of HEPAC and fix this industry???? You obviously know how as you clearly can fault the organizations that are "on a race to the bottom", so obviously you know "the fix".

 

The old saying "step up or shut up"!

[Auto Relight]

Uh huh.

 

And what exactly about a couple of posts on an internet forum would lead you to believe I haven't already "stepped up" in a number of ways?

 

Oh right, reactionary posting after leaping to conclusions. I'll give you a pass on that one.

 

Cheers,

 

AR