Long Line Operations In Mountains..

[RonnyRotor]

not according to GN

[helicopterjim]

not according to GN

 

Anyone who can wrestle a polar bear and live to tell the tale .....

[jullian]

A good pilot can do well in the mountains with a good head on their shoulders and no mountain course. Because you don't have the Canadian course dosen't make you any less of a pilot, or less skilled with the right amount of experience.

[OTR]

Jullian,

You are joking correct? Canadian is not the only operator out there whom gives a professional, respected and well balanced course. If you are not joking, please be careful, fly solo and good luck. Please take a moment to consider why mountain courses were invented. There were a lot of great aviators whom paid the price so the rest of us "nogs" could learn and survive.

Please have a safe 2012, and at a minimum stay east of Calgary and West of Labrador and south of Baffin.

[pilot5]

A good pilot can do well in the mountains with a good head on their shoulders and no mountain course. Because you don't have the Canadian course dosen't make you any less of a pilot, or less skilled with the right amount of experience.

 

 

Well Julian I do not agree. Here is why!

 

In 1999 I had what I felt was lots of experience (600 hrs or so) in the mountains. Low and behold while landing in a tight spot in the Torngat Mountains ( east coast) had a hard landing in a Bell 206 and managed to pop a few holes in the skid gear and bent the cross tube.. the isolation mount cut loose and the Trany started rocking all over the place..Felt like the dam thing was gonna come apart. Of course had landed at 6500 feet before in the western side of the foot hills of Alberta before under close to the same met conditions wind direction ect. What i had failed to recognize or calculate into my assessment was that due to the lack of surface friction partly due to the lack of trees the wind did something a little different and was not where it was supposed and allot stronger closer to the landing area than I had expected. Scared the crap out of the client and myself as well....

 

The bottom line! You cannot learn everything you can about mountain flying by experience and its more prudent to try to learn by studying the mistakes of others...In our business its just not reasonable to assume that going out and experimenting through trial and error is the best or safest way.

 

Even today after 1000's of hours in the mountains, there are still things that surprise me even with the knowledge of a mountain course... So I will disagree with you on your statement...

 

P5

[twinstar_ca]

well said, P5!!

[Whitestone]

I have read the posts about the value of taking a mountain course and have to say i agree with Jullian. Taking a mountain course is a good thing, the added experience will help you out but it's not the only way to go. It's certainly touted as such by schools who have a product they are trying to sell. I started my career in the Mountains and flew for years without taking a course. You don't have to take a mountain course to be a good mountain pilot, i know many who are that did not. Arm yourself with knowledge, talk to other pilots about your flying if you can find one you trust won't stab you in the back... , read as much as you can about the subject and when you are flying don't accept an approach or departure that was sloppy, go over it in your mind and "fly" it perfectly in your mind so next time you will do it with precision. How long does it take to cover the fundamentals, things like optical illusions, the movement of air over and around solid objects, the performance of the machine at altitude and managing the weather? If you want to pay from 20 to 80k or more to have that demonstrated to you, well nice to be you but another route is to do a bit of reading and be aware and go into mountain flying just like any other new discipline, go light till you get the hang of it and not in the most severe weather. When i finally did take a mountain course it seemed to me they were teaching me things that i had figured out for myself and/or had read about and was aware of. Be serious about accumulating knowledge on the subject, get your boss to go out for a few hours and spend some time shooting some approaches. The rest is practice and keeping your hand in it.

 

 

A school could never teach you all there is to know about mountain flying, as every day in the mountains is different, hotter or colder, strong or light wind, steady or variable, humid or dry, cloudy or clear. I think, get the "ground school" knowledge and do some flying with an experienced mountain pilot at "your" company who CAN teach and show you the basics, then go out into the world and start accumulating experience yourself. No amount of money or school can prepare you for what's waiting out there. If you are a smooth, precise, cautious pilot armed with knowledge you will do well.

[twinstar_ca]

and where did your boss get his/her experience?? what about that experienced co-worker??

 

competency is measured by knowledge AND experience... i fail to see why you would shun the learning from schools that teach this regularly..

 

tillotson must shake his head sometimes...

[pilot5]

I have read the posts about the value of taking a mountain course and have to say i agree with Jullian. Taking a mountain course is a good thing, the added experience will help you out but it's not the only way to go. It's certainly touted as such by schools who have a product they are trying to sell. I started my career in the Mountains and flew for years without taking a course. You don't have to take a mountain course to be a good mountain pilot, i know many who are that did not. Arm yourself with knowledge, talk to other pilots about your flying if you can find one you trust won't stab you in the back... , read as much as you can about the subject and when you are flying don't accept an approach or departure that was sloppy, go over it in your mind and "fly" it perfectly in your mind so next time you will do it with precision. How long does it take to cover the fundamentals, things like optical illusions, the movement of air over and around solid objects, the performance of the machine at altitude and managing the weather? If you want to pay from 20 to 80k or more to have that demonstrated to you, well nice to be you but another route is to do a bit of reading and be aware and go into mountain flying just like any other new discipline, go light till you get the hang of it and not in the most severe weather. When i finally did take a mountain course it seemed to me they were teaching me things that i had figured out for myself and/or had read about and was aware of. Be serious about accumulating knowledge on the subject, get your boss to go out for a few hours and spend some time shooting some approaches. The rest is practice and keeping your hand in it.

 

 

A school could never teach you all there is to know about mountain flying, as every day in the mountains is different, hotter or colder, strong or light wind, steady or variable, humid or dry, cloudy or clear. I think, get the "ground school" knowledge and do some flying with an experienced mountain pilot at "your" company who CAN teach and show you the basics, then go out into the world and start accumulating experience yourself. No amount of money or school can prepare you for what's waiting out there. If you are a smooth, precise, cautious pilot armed with knowledge you will do well.

 

You must convince HAC and BCFS and Alberta and a hole bunch of other folks of your theory. No doubt the experience is invaluable.

 

It is and remains a requirement in some provinces/states for forestry work. Can't see this changing in the near or late future except a greater movement by end users to ramp up stricter compliance with training requirements if anything. That is of course if the Insurance industry has anything to do with it!

 

P5

[Batiskaf]

I agree with the fact that some jurisdictions will only hire pilots who can justify of a certified mountain training. Julian, try to put yourself in the client's shoes. What tool is available for them to measure your mountain experience/training and knowledge. Let's not re-invent the wheel, let's build on the work/experience our peers developed. No room for pride or complacency. Let's be humble and fly safe!