New Fatigue Regulations

[AAL]

16 hours ago, Freewheel said:

Just when I thought I was done with this thread, the TC Standards Branch pipes up 😂 

Well, the first paragraph is accurate at least “This AC on its own does not change, create, amend or permit deviations from regulatory requirements, nor does it establish minimum standards.”

thankfully this document is merely Advice, as the title asserts. Poorly worded advice.

Quite a bit of overreach, by the bureaucrats . Particularly in their efforts to re-write the regulations on Aerial Inspection through Guidance Material. That puts standards in non-compliance in my books. Convenient that they left the ACTUAL CARs definition out of the AC, isn’t it.?

No mention of the requirements for technical inspection, trained personnel or  to collect imagery and make a report in the CARs definition. 

And loaded patrol, flights that are intended to inspect the forest for smoke or fire is clearly aerial inspection, as per the ACTUAL CARs definition.

flights outside the forest fire area, where all persons on board meet the requirements of 722.16 (c) are also aerial work (whether they are firefighters or not).

aerial inspection means the inspection from an aircraft of crops, forests, livestock or wildlife, the patrolling of pipelines or power lines, a flight inspection or any other operation of a similar nature; (inspection aérienne)

yup sounds like loaded patrol to me..

I’ve already advised Standards and our inspectors that I won’t be complying with this Guidance Material, (when I submitted comments as requested at the end).

 

100 percent and accurate. 

File your complaints with TC over this draft AC at

 AARTDocServices-ServicesdocAART@tc.gc.ca

 

TC stance is that they are moving forward with this because they are not receiving any feedback from operators. 

Time to light it up using the email address above.  

[Freewheel]

21 minutes ago, AAL said:

100 percent and accurate. 

File your complaints with TC over this draft AC at

 AARTDocServices-ServicesdocAART@tc.gc.ca

 

TC stance is that they are moving forward with this because they are not receiving any feedback from operators. 

Time to light it up using the email address above.  

Now that’s funny!
 

Most of us wouldn’t even know this draft document even existed, if it wasn’t posted on Vertical Forum. They strategically chose who they shared it with, just as they subjectively cherry-picked which regulations they would include when they created this nonsensical document.

[AAL]

Agreed. 

[Freewheel]

On 3/31/2023 at 12:38 AM, Torque Split said:

If you take off on a patrol and land back at the same location, it is 702 because you have not transported them between two points as is stated under the definition for 703 Air Transport

That's a good point. The only way I can see them attempt to justify a loaded patrol (AKA detection flight) as air taxi, is by classifying it as a "sightseeing operation", which is a 703 Air Taxi flight by regulation.

703.01 This Subpart applies in respect of the operation by a Canadian air operator, in an air transport service or in aerial work involving sightseeing operations, of any of the following aircraft:

For whatever reason,( like the CARs definition for "aerial Inspection"), they chose not to include the CARs definition for "sightseeing operation" in this guidance material.

CARs 101.01(1)

sightseeing operation means aerial work in the course of which passengers are disembarked at the point of departure; (excursion aérienne)

That seems problematic, since persons that conduct essential functions related to the Aerial Work, are being carried under 702.16/722.16, and not considered passengers.

So what's next? Many aerial work flights, that are classified as aerial inspection, (or aerial inspection and surveillance as they refer to it in the AC), return to the departure point and disembark persons. Wildlife survey, airborne geophysics survey, airborne mapping, hydrological survey, forestry inspection (ie. timber cruising for commercial foresters and /or MNR)...just to name a few.

How long before they start attempting to classify all of these people passengers, and therefore 703 Air Taxi  (sightseeing flights) flights?

Also worth noting, nothing that I am aware of in the CARs states that you can't drop essential persons being carried under 702 at a point of destination that differs from departure.

[Torque Split]

 

specialty air services means aerial mapping, aerial surveying, aerial photography, forest fire management, fire fighting, aerial advertising, glider towing, parachute jumping, aerial construction, heli-logging, aerial sightseeing, flight training, aerial inspection and surveillance and aerial spraying services; (services aériens spécialisé

In the above definition, why then is aerial sightseeing listed as a specialty air service which is aerial work, yet in 703.01 it is listed as a 703 operation

[Freewheel]

3 hours ago, Torque Split said:

 

specialty air services means aerial mapping, aerial surveying, aerial photography, forest fire management, fire fighting, aerial advertising, glider towing, parachute jumping, aerial construction, heli-logging, aerial sightseeing, flight training, aerial inspection and surveillance and aerial spraying services; (services aériens spécialisé

In the above definition, why then is aerial sightseeing listed as a specialty air service which is aerial work, yet in 703.01 it is listed as a 703 operation

I can’t say for sure why  they did this. I’m going to assume it’s because they understand that “sightseeing operations” are more generally a recreational type of flight, and the persons onboard would not generally be treated the same as essential persons in aerial work/crew members. Persons carried under 702 generally are required to have essential functions in connection with the aerial work- like trained professional firefighters, in the conduct if their employment, acting as spotters on a low level aerial inspection (loaded patrol). This is also probably a riskier flight than sightseeing Niagara. Persons carried under 702 also require additional items covered under the safety briefing; and they are also eligible and expected to receive additional training as applicable to their duties. They often conduct many duties related to operational control, and can have a significant impact on the safety of the flight operation. Passengers on a sightseeing operation would generally not be expected or allowed to conduct these duties. There’s a big difference between being a passenger over Niagara Falls and a firefighter conducting a low level aerial inspection. Apparently, TC standards doesn’t recognize this difference.

I also know that the CARs advise that aerial work involving sightseeing operations must be conducted under 703 in 702.01(2)

Subpart 2 — Aerial Work

Division I — General

Application

• 702.01 (1) Subject to subsection (2), this Subpart applies in respect of the operation of an aeroplane or helicopter in aerial work involving

  • (a) the carriage on board of persons other than flight crew members;

  • (b) the carriage of helicopter Class B, C or D external loads;

  • (c) the towing of objects; or

  • (d) the dispersal of products.

• (2) This Subpart does not apply in respect of the operation of an ultra-light aeroplane, or in respect of the operation of an aircraft in aerial work involving sightseeing operations.
  
  702.01 also indicates that there is only 4 types of aerial work that are applicable under 702 AOC. “The carriage on board of persons other than flight crew members”, is in itself a category, or type of aerial work that is applicable to 702. All types of work being conducted under 702 must fall under one of these 4 categories (whether it be “aerial inspection”, aerial photography,Forest fire management, aerial spray etc..)

[Freewheel]

Carriage of Persons

702.16 No air operator shall allow a person who is not a flight crew member to be carried on board an aircraft unless

• (a) the person’s presence on board is essential during the flight;

• (b) the air operator is authorized in its air operator certificate to permit parachute descents and the person is a parachutist; or

• (c) the air operator

  • (i) is authorized in its air operator certificate to carry a person, and

  • (ii) complies with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

**NOTE: Most commercial helicopter operators are authorized in in their 702 AOC (through an Ops Spec) to carry a person therefore
702.16 (c) is the relevant requirement in 702.16.
(a) and (b) are irrelevant if you meet (c)

722.16 Carriage of Persons

The standards for authorization to carry persons other than flight crew members and persons essential during flight are:

(a) the person is a flight crew member trainee, is a person undergoing training for essential duties during flight or is an air operator employee aircraft maintenance technician;

(b) the person is a fire fighter or fire control officer being carried within a forest fire area;

(c) the person is being carried to an aerial work site, performs an essential function in connection with the aerial work operation and is necessary to accomplish the aerial work operation;

(d) during helicopter external load operations, persons not essential during flight are carried only in conjunction with a Class D load which complies with subsection 702.21(1) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations, except for crew members undergoing training, or fire fighters carried only in conjunction with a Class B load consisting of equipment necessary to fight fires within a forest fire area;

*** Note: to transport person(s) under 722.16(c), the answer to the following 3 questions should be YES:
1. Is the person being carried to an aerial work site?
2. Does the person perform an essential function in connection with the Aerial work operation?
3. Is the person necessary to accomplish the aerial work operation?

If the answer to all 3 questions is yes, then the person(s) can be transported under 722.16(c). In that case, 722.16 (a), (b) and (d) are irrelevant.

***SINCE the “carriage of On-board persons other than flight crew members” is initself a “type” of aerial work (1 of 4 types of applicable aerial work listed in 702.01(1)), then if the answer to questions 2 and 3 are yes, then by default they are being carried to an “aerial work site”.

What type of Aerial Work site are they being transported to?

Answer: a “Carriage of on board persons other than flight crew members” aerial work site

[Bee3]

The dead horse is getting flogged good and proper!

[Freewheel]

1 hour ago, Bee3 said:

The dead horse is getting flogged good and proper!

😂

I already  “flogged” this horse until I thought he was dead, and low and behold, he woke up.

His name is  “Standards Branch”

[simpleton]

14 hours ago, Freewheel said:

***SINCE the “carriage of On-board persons other than flight crew members” is initself a “type” of aerial work (1 of 4 types of applicable aerial work listed in 702.01(1)), then if the answer to questions 2 and 3 are yes, then by default they are being carried to an “aerial work site”.

What type of Aerial Work site are they being transported to?

Answer: a “Carriage of on board persons other than flight crew members” aerial work site

Lol, no the "Carriage of on board persons other than flight crew members" is not a form of aerial work....it is merely a statement of who is allowed be carried onboard while conducting aerial work or transiting to an aerial work location.

702.01(1) is not an exhaustive list of what constitutes aerial work.

You have only the 3 basic lets under 722.16 for persons carried onboard, or to, during aerial work (as you yourself posted above):

1) Flight Crew (the most obvious)

2) Persons essential onboard (crew members, but not flight crew members [ie. fire crew, spotters, sensor operators, etc.])

3) Persons being transported to an aerial work location (these are just passengers, as per 101.1(1) , as they have no actual onboard duties other than being seat-belted in for the ride to the aerial work area).