STARS

[BJP]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:29 AM, Winnie said:

yes, there has been additional monies awarded recently. there is a quality of life addition which brings the pay up substantially. I think about 17% or so.

 

Cheers

W

Quality of life???

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/notre-dame-hospital-air-ambulance-ornge-staffing-funding-1.6917530

This family's quality of life just degraded because of a shift-change delay. Throwing money at the problem isn't the answer. It never is. 

[Winnie]

The crews still need a quality of life. And the 17 or so % is likely going to help retain and hopefully get a few more in the door. Is it the end all/be all? no, but it sure makes life better.

I can't comment on the case, but it sounds like a Fixed Wing Call.

[Planker]

8 hours ago, BJP said:

Quality of life???

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/notre-dame-hospital-air-ambulance-ornge-staffing-funding-1.6917530

This family's quality of life just degraded because of a shift-change delay. Throwing money at the problem isn't the answer. It never is. 

"France Gélinas, MPP for Nickel Belt and NDP health critic, says Ornge's air ambulance experienced delays in delivering its service as it had to follow protocols. 

By the time they had the green light to leave Hearst the pilots had reached the end of their shift and a new crew needed to be brought in, according to Gélinas."

 

I'm curious what protocols needed to be followed that slowed things down so much. 

[Winnie]

It's not just pilots that make decisions... 

[Freewheel]

18 hours ago, Winnie said:

It's not just pilots that make decisions...

So true, but still I would also be curious to see protocols led to this unfortunate situation.

Unfortunately, bureaucrats fail to realize that.

Recent similar concerns, that some have raised with TC, we’re met with the response “I would expect any pilot to prioritize any life saving mission” (over compliance with FRMS regulations). I thought that was quite short sighted.

This statement in the article also seems suspect: "Ornge is dealing with protocols that haven't been looked at in so long," said Gélinas. 
 

With the massive change to TC regulations surrounding crew working hours, just last December, I suspect most of the related protocols would have had to have been reviewed. Not to mention,  I bet just about every protocol related to operational control was reviewed by TSB, and TC between 2013 and 2016, during the investigation that led the  longest TSB report ever published. 

[tipspeed]

I don’t think any EMS outfit has the ability to break CARS duty regs unless it’s unforeseen circumstances, pending calls and patient details from what I understand aren’t good enough but I could be wrong. 
I think more info will have to come out about that.

As far as STARS vs Ornge down-staffing, maybe it’s a matter of what the company offers or the locations? 

(I’m not sure what we’re allowed to comment about seeing as posts keep getting deleted) 

[Winnie]

Without going into details, at Ornge there are 4 crew, 2 pilots that make their go/no-go based on weather. 2 medics decide the direct medical stuff, then there is operations with a whole staff behind the scenes. 

Pilots just do their best to go when they can.

[Beach Man]

2 hours ago, Winnie said:

Without going into details, at Ornge there are 4 crew, 2 pilots that make their go/no-go based on weather. 2 medics decide the direct medical stuff, then there is operations with a whole staff behind the scenes. 

Pilots just do their best to go when they can.

When I flew the Air Ambulance it was cut and dried. Even had all the mins on the wall. If it didn't work the answer was an easy no. No question. I.E. if the call was to XXX and the mins were 1 1/2 mile and 700 feet and it was 1 mile and 700 feet the answer was no. Period.

[InsertCoffee]

On 7/28/2023 at 12:32 PM, Freewheel said:

So true, but still I would also be curious to see protocols led to this unfortunate situation.

Unfortunately, bureaucrats fail to realize that.

Recent similar concerns, that some have raised with TC, we’re met with the response “I would expect any pilot to prioritize any life saving mission” (over compliance with FRMS regulations). I thought that was quite short sighted. 

I'm sorry, what? Transport thinks pilots will violate the regs with the expectation that the regulator will see common sense in the event of a violation?

 

That's ridiculous, the only way the regulator will see common sense is if the owner of the company is friends with their inspector.

[drkrider]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:42 AM, Planker said:

"France Gélinas, MPP for Nickel Belt and NDP health critic, says Ornge's air ambulance experienced delays in delivering its service as it had to follow protocols. 

By the time they had the green light to leave Hearst the pilots had reached the end of their shift and a new crew needed to be brought in, according to Gélinas."

 

I'm curious what protocols needed to be followed that slowed things down so much. 

At my last employer we did FW medivac and the delays were all most entirely on the the tasking agency’s side we’d often have crews (pilots/medics) sitting for hours waiting to get launch approval, or they would show up to pick up a patient and the patient wouldn’t be ready to transport. Some times because is medical reasons, sometimes because someone forgot to tell the ground crew when the plane was arriving.