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Oh by the way Cap, if you read all of your manual and understood correctly there is a section "Appendix "C" a) 3rd paragraph"that states:


" Prior to landing in any reduced dimension heli-pad, the pilot shall have previously measured the distance, in order to positively asertain that the above noted blade clearence exists (i.e. airborne approvals, followed by first time landings, are not permitted.)


that a pilot of physically measure and confirm that a confined area meets their dimensional standards. So when you fly surveyors out to the bush to survey a new lease site you will have to walk the miles needed to measure the confined area that you were supposed to drop them off at. this rule will have to be adjusted also. What do you think? :shock: :down: :( :angry: :P;)

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1) I am paid to fly and not to walk long distances........that is not part of my "job description" and cost extra thank-you.


2) My landing spots are determined by ME and whether I can land or take-off from them is determined by ME. It is ME who will be held responsible by my company, my pax, MoT and my wife if I make the wrong decision in that regard. It is also ME who will be asked in Court by some lawyer to "Please share with this Court your justifications for your actions that caused this accident". If Contrail would care to substitute the word "Contrail" for the word "ME" on any of the foregoing instances and "make it stick", then I'll shut my mouth. Until then, I'M "where the buck stops".....literally, figuratively and legally.......AND that 's exactly the way it should be.

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Got tired of plodding through the pages of this thread, so I apologize if what I have to say has already been mentioned.


We should all understand that Mr. 'Contrail' is basically doing his best to cover both his ***, and the ***** of his clients, from the kind of liabilities to which Cap alludes, and particularly those that will be measured and declared by the courts.


He has to be sure that he leaves himself open to absolutely no risk of not having performed diligently in advising his clients. Imagine, for example, if XYZ Oil Inc. were aboard a machine that fell off a log pad which wasn't built to a ridiculous standard dreamed up by him. He'd then be exposed to negligence charges, possibly even of a criminal nature. And you can be damned sure the oil company's risk managers aren't going to let them take the exposure.


Another factor of which we should all be aware is the influence of unions on this kind of 'regulation.' The ones 'protecting' the workers in the North Sea and the Gulf of Mexico have been responsible for many standards, both good and less so, that have been adopted by the oil companies.


Proceeding down his eddy of insanity, we'll end up , of course, with helicopters in near absolute safety because they won't be flown but, at least, there won't then be any further need for his particular form of lunacy.


We dream, my friends, if we believe we're going to be able to do anything except slow the pace of these intrusions into what once provided so much enjoyment. Remember the thrill of the first solo, and darting around in the peaks and valleys of some low-level cu. Hold fast to those, because there'll be little else with which to regale your grandchildren.


The beancounters and the lawyers are going to rule, friends. Just watch. :(

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I have been following this "contrail" thread for some time now but have reserved my comments until now. The solution to the problem is simple, and a s far as I am concerned "contrail" - HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS INTERFERING WITH HOW OPERATORS LICENCED UNDER THE CTA DO OR PROVIDE SERVICES TO CLIENTS. :shock:


The operators and maybe even HAC need to put thier foot down, and send "contrail" packing. :angry:


Oil operators who subscribe to contrail services should consider buying thier own AC anfd operating independently. <_<



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Downwash is correct because he's been around so bloody long and seen crap like this come and go before. This is just another "game" with different "players" involved this time, that's all. He just added a third component to the other two who control the world, that's all.......and they are: lawyers, insurance companies AND beancounters. In some cases they are all wrapped-up into one person also.


It will not be the first time that some organization or outfit has subscribed and joined some idea that looked good at the first glance of all their "better-high-mucky-mucks" and law department. THEN they try to apply it in the "real world" of their operations and cause many parts or all of it to come to a grinding halt or curtail it greatly.........then the "abba, abba, abba" starts and the "customization" of those rules begins. Based on the input in conversations that I have had with my customer and two neighbouring ones, who are no "small-players" in the gas industry, those changes have already been planned and the whole thing hasn't even been instigated yet. They too, have not the slightest intention of allowing me, asking me or don't have the time to allow me/them to walk any 2-10 miles into the bush to check-out landing areas that have been cut-out for helicopter landing areas. They expect that I will fly-over as they are being cut and advise when I think that they are acceptable for the a/c that will be required to land there. Bottom line: they need that work done, they need the landing areas cut-out to do so, BUT they don't have the time during any working-day for me to parade around in the bush for 45 minutes to 2 hours doing onsite inspections in person before I commit to land there. Therefore, it will be done the old-fashioned way and they'll trust to mine and others' judgements. If we can't do that much then they'll fire our ***** and get someone who can.........and I doubt that that person will be wearing a Harris Tweed sports jacket and be carrying any clipboard. He'll be some "good 'ol boy" whose done it a million times before and maybe started doing it before Mssr. Contrail knew one end of an a/c from the other. Whatever the case, he'll get it done safely and maybe land in that spot 150 times over the next 2 days also and get to know the trees there on a first name basis also. :lol:


Pefect Track ------ I've attended those Courts of Discovery and I have no desire to face any lawyers like they have there. They remind me of a bunch of Rottweilers frothing at the mouth at the appearance of some raw meat. I've seen personally how they can tear some aeronautical engineer apart on the witness stand and leave him looking like some idiot. It's an ugly place and situation to be in, so one should imagine what his answer might be before he does a lot of things that he might not want to brag about afterwards.


Transientorque2-------my name ain't Chuck Guite either. :lol:

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  • 2 months later...



Other than what is posted here you can be almost sure that nothing has really happened.


Our friend Downwash- not to blow his cover or anything has a pretty direct line to HAC. Don't ask how I know, I just do.


So, Downwash you have this quarum here on the Contrail matter, with a legally solicited pole where industry participants have provided a clear direction on who they believe can help.


Perhaps you should consider moving the matter forward.


My kindest regards and consideration.




I meant POLL!



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