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Is It Fraud?


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Just wondering??? Heard a rumor that an lower time pilot padded his/her logbook to acquire a job and then had an accident/incident. Is that not fraud??? Does the insurance company not investigate this??? Does TC look into this??? Do operators not check on previous experience? Further more how does this individual keep advancing. :shock: :shock: :wacko:

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Not sure how it works up there but down here it would be classed as fraud. We recently had a Canadian dude who applied to run the national maori TV station and it was not until after he started screwing up and fiddling the funds that the Govt looked into his references etc and found they were bogus.


They arrested him with fraud, convicted him and deported him back to Canada. I would presume that the same thing could he said in the helicopter industry, especially if the accident involved passengers or customers. They would have a great case against the company to sue them if they found out he was a fraudster.


Also shouldnt the employer ensure that all references are check out thoroughly.


Heli Ops B)

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Every time you get a speeding ticket or a have traffic accident, it goes on your driving record (which the insurance companies love to check on).


Does TC keep a similar record (aside from the TSB's records)? Any help here, CTD?


Blackmac, what would be HEPAC's take on this issue?


Anybody representing HAC have any thoughts on this one?

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I can't speak for the yet to be board of directors of HEPAC, but I can say from my own knowledge and have posted it on other threads, that all contract pilots or engineers should carry liability insurance.


For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, depending upon the circumstances. (this just redefing Bernulli's principale).


Liability means somebody or something is responsible for the cause of an accident. Defining this is something else. If it is an engineering problem that person or manufacturer is responsible. If the aircraft capabilities or the pilots capabilities were exceeded and caused an accident, it is reffered to as pilot error.


In actual fact an engineer or pilot causing an accident through there own negligence can be sued by, the insurance company and or the families of the accident victims and or the company they are employed with.


As far as fraud is concerned, I don't know if I answered your question. Stupidity or negligence does not have any years of experience or flight hours attached to it, it can apply to anybody.


As far as TC getting involved, I doubt it, unless something is obvious.


Normally in Canada if you take the time to check on a persons resume, you can, as the person doing the hiring, find out every thing from the day they were born.


So, in retrospect, no excuse.


Last but not least, an engineers capabilities will show up on the hangar floor and a pilots capabilities will show up in an extensive interview and check ride.




Don McDougall

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The sad reality that I've seen over the last three years at two different companies is that pilots must supply their times to the insurance company for approval. The honest guys with real times are either told to get more time or they are only approved to fly a small machine with one pax to limit the liability potential.


The crappy part of this is when the Chief Pilot is buddy-buddy with a new guy and wants to get him flying a turbine. So, the two of them lie to the insurance folks about hours, the new guy gets approved, and the guy with a magical zero added to his total turbine experience goes out and intentionally abuses the aircraft.


Nice , eh? Is it fraud? I'd say so. The weakest link in the chain here is the insurance folks, as they only require a form to be filled out. I'd like to see a requirement for a proof of experience, ie: a logbook showing times that are certified correct, not just pencil whipped.


But, it all boils down to honesty and professionalism.


When I started flying 10 years ago, we had at our company more 100 hour wonders wailing around doing rides, etc than high time guys. Did we have any mishaps - no. Did the insurance companies require minimum experience levels - no.


Hopefully things will improve in the near future so that the chief pilot or ops manager can determine who's good to put on the flight line, not some dude in an office looking at a piece of paper!!


End rant-o-rama

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Thanks for the insight guys.


I guess the point I'm trying to make is that this individual has made it through three interviews and check rides....bent some blades and is now employed at a different company beyond his experience and means (500hr flatland vs 1700hr fictional in the rocks).....Is it a fact that all the industry needs is warm bodies not honest, profesional people? How do we prevent log book padding individuals from killing families in one foul swoop? First off this hurts the young guys due to artifically inflated minums eg. 2000 hour mins for B.C. Hydro, but it also insures that the more experienced guys are forever welded to the mundane jobs eg. 2000 hour TT and 1000 hours turbine to fly an Oil lease sight in Muskeg Alberta?


Sorry for the rants and babble....just a little frustrated!!!! :wacko:

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I must admit I'm also confused Hoss, if an operator hires a pilot, and trusts him with his machine, would he not go to the effort of making a few phone calls as well? Or do most operators trust a guy based on how he flies his PPC?

Is there anyone on here in a hiring position who can shed some light?


Just seems that with aviation in Canada being such a small community everybody probably knows enough people that its not hard to do a quick double check of a new pilots logbook before giving him the keys to the company car.

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