Rebuttal Of The Fred Jones Column In The March/april 2013 Issue Of Helicopters

[jullian]

Some might say early 90s is new to the industry.

[Bif]

Some might say early 90s is new to the industry.

 

Look at Igor Sikorsky over here...

[hybrid]

Some might say early 90s is new to the industry.

Some could say that, but it would be pretty arrogant of them. It would certainly be enough time to have an opinion. For the record julian I have been in the industry long before the early nineties....

[redliner]

 

 

What about a 1,000 hr pilot, Putz? What about a 500 hour pilot on his first summer of fires? What about a 150 Hr pilot who just landed his first field assignment after flight school and 2 years of ground crew, picking up the odd hour here and there? Do you think he's going to have the courage to stand up and tell his boss, or the lead hand at the gas plant who has to get out and pig all his lines today, that "Hey, we can't fly as much today because I'm fatigued, and that's unsafe."?

 

 

This is a good point. It is easier to demand more rest when you have more experience. I think rather than legislate change to the regulations , we need to train and educate pilots on the effects of fatigue. More mentoring of young pilots. An updated mandatory section on fatigue in the annual PDM course. It's funny to me though as most jobs have a right to refuse unsafe work policy. I have not ever been too tired to work, but certainly if I felt I was , I could pull the safety card at any time with no questions asked.

I found the one mention of nurses a valid comparison. Nurses and doctors can(it would seem) routinely work 24 or 36 hour shifts with an exemption from the Canada Labour Code. They literally take peoples lives in their hands working longer than anyone would think possible. And I can't sit around for 12 hours and fly 6 of those? I think we have a system that works well , and if we restrict the amount of hours worked in a day, that puts pressure on the short time frame of some operators season. Some pilots get a bag of time off in the winter and welcome a lot of flight hours in a short period of time. Who doesn't like to time out in 21 days? There is nothing finer, lets face it.

[FREDDIE]

1200 reduced to 1000 no way. I flew four years logging between 1100 and 1200 hours. Week on week off and 2 and 2. fatigue was not an issue.

[Golden_pilot]

Personally the 42 is too long and should be capped at 30 days with 14 days off. Hours changed to 150hrs in 20 days and if you time out you need to take 14 days off and if you don't time out then 200hrs in 30 days with 14 days off with an annual cap of 1600hrs.

 

Lowering the annual to 1000hrs just restricts the amount of money to be made. Fatigue comes from sitting around doing nothing waiting to fly.

 

Keeps it simple and a person can potentially make a sh!t load of money if they could find a job to fly 1600hrs a year. If you can't handle flying 6.6hrs a day for 30 days then speak up or find a better shift like a 2&2 or 3&3.

 

Just my opinion.....

[skullcap]

I have read alot of opinions here and it is good to see dialogue. Seems like most are pool pilots and few base pilots and almost zero knuckleheads like myself who is a dreaded "Mom and Pop" operation. Our types of operations are to be honest disliked by pretty much everyone from the manufactures who have their bills questioned to the Pilots and Engineers who don't get work from them. But am afraid that there are a few of us, so when I read some of the posts I have to put in some input that these "perfect" setups, for the most part don't work for us. Am sure will get the "charge the rate and afford to have more pilots" replies, but many of us started in areas which we wanted to live and/or have a customer base which the big boys didn't want to support. Lots of us grew up with backgrounds of long days or little time off thus the lifestyle fits our lifestyle. So to not provide an excuse but just to provide background when I say that the rules as they exist seem to be working fine for most and for those who don't like the long tours you seem to have worked out your rotations. Have not read one post where there is an existing complaint....lots of "back when" stuff but not any "boy is my shift sucking and am working too hard"....

[Skidz]

I have read alot of opinions here and it is good to see dialogue. Seems like most are pool pilots and few base pilots and almost zero knuckleheads like myself who is a dreaded "Mom and Pop" operation. Our types of operations are to be honest disliked by pretty much everyone from the manufactures who have their bills questioned to the Pilots and Engineers who don't get work from them. But am afraid that there are a few of us, so when I read some of the posts I have to put in some input that these "perfect" setups, for the most part don't work for us. Am sure will get the "charge the rate and afford to have more pilots" replies, but many of us started in areas which we wanted to live and/or have a customer base which the big boys didn't want to support. Lots of us grew up with backgrounds of long days or little time off thus the lifestyle fits our lifestyle. So to not provide an excuse but just to provide background when I say that the rules as they exist seem to be working fine for most and for those who don't like the long tours you seem to have worked out your rotations. Have not read one post where there is an existing complaint....lots of "back when" stuff but not any "boy is my shift sucking and am working too hard"....

 

To be fair Skully, I saw some lowtime (600-1200 hours) pilots last summer working for three different operators who were doing 42/5 shifts in the summer. One kid I ran into was an accident waiting to happen. He'd been in camp for 40 days, had gotten the "Dear John" letter from his gf his first week in. If the regs allow it, some operators will not hesitate one second to squeeze every last drop out of the lemon. The newer guys don't speak up, because they're told "suck up or go home".

[DGP]

What golden-pilot said!!!....pottsy.

[skullcap]

 

To be fair Skully, I saw some lowtime (600-1200 hours) pilots last summer working for three different operators who were doing 42/5 shifts in the summer. One kid I ran into was an accident waiting to happen. He'd been in camp for 40 days, had gotten the "Dear John" letter from his gf his first week in. If the regs allow it, some operators will not hesitate one second to squeeze every last drop out of the lemon. The newer guys don't speak up, because they're told "suck up or go home".

Never said the tours weren't being done, said not seeing complaints here. I have, and will do those tours myself, for the right client, right job, conditions, is not a problem. The one kid being an accident waiting to happen is not good, was anyone taking action to help him? I have put in calls to operators who I think need to be told that ops are not normal on a job.