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Winnie

Helicopter crash in Ontario... 4 dead

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A sad story for sure. I’m glad that the TSB is releasing informations so quickly. It amazing looking at the aerial map that they could find the tail rotor skin, the bag and the  carribeaner in such a large area. 

Also im wondering if the rear passengers would have survived if they had been buckled up. Looks like they may have had a slight chance judging by the photos.  

  • ‘Shortly thereafter, while the pilot was attempting to land, the helicopter departed from controlled flight, all 3 passengers became separated from the helicopter while it was still airborne. The helicopter subsequently crashed nearby.’

this part of the report is particularly disturbing 

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they did have the GPS data which i'm sure helped narrow down the track to search.

If it snowed, they likely wouldn't have been as successful so quickly.

I am thankful for TSB releasing info quickly as well, its a plus on all accounts.

 

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17 hours ago, BrockLanders said:

A sad story for sure. I’m glad that the TSB is releasing informations so quickly. It amazing looking at the aerial map that they could find the tail rotor skin, the bag and the  carribeaner in such a large area. 

Also im wondering if the rear passengers would have survived if they had been buckled up. Looks like they may have had a slight chance judging by the photos.  

  • ‘Shortly thereafter, while the pilot was attempting to land, the helicopter departed from controlled flight, all 3 passengers became separated from the helicopter while it was still airborne. The helicopter subsequently crashed nearby.’

this part of the report is particularly disturbing 

TSB were not on site at the time of the accident, the helicopter was coming into a staging area and was witnessed by ground crew that something came off the side of the helicopter and went into tail rotor. 

  • Shortly thereafter, while the pilot was attempting to land, the helicopter departed from controlled flight, all 3 passengers became separated from the helicopter while it was still airborne. The helicopter subsequently crashed nearby.’

this part of the report is particularly disturbing 

I worked for Ontario Hydro in T-Bay and Kenora and the OMNR and they both need a shake-up, government employees have a tendency to get SLACK, while waiting for their pension. INMO. You can include ORGN with that statement.

As for Ontario Hydro using that type of helicopter for that task, leaves quite a bit to be desired, as far as safety is concerned.   

Hydro Companies all across Canada use the same criteria when working around POWER LINES, single engine helicopters should not be used that have tail rotors. The ideal helicopter is the Hughes 500N (no Tail Rotor) , with built in crash survivability of any helicopter on the market. It can be ordered with two engines, which makes it even better when working at almost ground level altitudes.

WHY do you think Transport Canada mandate twin engine helicopters for Air Ambulance with single engine take-off performance. 

Having worked thousands of hours around POWER LINES in Quebec and Ontario, I do have some idea what I am saying.

It doesn't take rocket science to make a RISK MANAGEMENT MATRIX to find out the equipment you need to operate at 100% safety margin.

IF YOU ARE STRIVING TO MINIMIZE COSTS, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG GAME.

THERE IS NO COST TO SAFETY.         MACHINES CAN ALWAYS BE REBUILT, HUMANS TO DATE CANNOT.    

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21 minutes ago, twinstar_ca said:

I believe the 900 series is the twin engine big brother to the 500 notar series... Ascent has one...

Hughes Helicopters was bought out by McDonnell/Douglas years ago and is now referred to as MD Helicopters, the Twin Model is the MD920N.

https://www.mdhelicopters.com/md-902-explorer.html 

Back in the early days when I was doing power line patrol with Quebec Hydro based from Quebec City doing patrols from Montreal to Manicouagan, I used to fly a Bell 47G2A for patrol. The patrol was carried out in between Two (2) 750KV lines for years. 

At a safety meeting I was asked what would happen if I had an engine failure or loss of tail rotor while flying between the lines, I stated that under both conditions I would be awfully lucky not to hit the power lines and kill both myself and the observer, but also cut power to Quebec City and Montreal. The cost would have been astronomical. 

From that date on all patrols were carried on outside the lines.

The company I was working for held the contract for eight years (8) with NO incident along the power lines anywhere in Quebec, we had three bases, Quebec City, Rouyn and Forestville. 

After 15,000 + hrs in eggbeaters I learned from my own mistakes.

SAFETY DOES NOT HAVE A DOLLAR ATTACHED TO IT.

POLITICS MIGHT HAVE, THE HELICOPTER I AM RECOMMENDING IS NOT MANUFACTURED IN ONTARIO OR QUEBEC.

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23 hours ago, Blackmac said:

government employees have a tendency to get SLACK, while waiting for their pension.

Love when people outside the government have sweeping generalizations about how those within government work. Keep in mind the age of the people in solved was quite young. They were all a long way from their pensions. 

23 hours ago, Blackmac said:

Hydro Companies all across Canada use the same criteria when working around POWER LINES, single engine helicopters should not be used that have tail rotors.

This is simply not true, BC uses twin engine aircraft for all operations carrying passengers. Many operators have tried to bring twins with Fenestrons/NOTARS in to the market (MD900, EC135) with varying success. 

23 hours ago, Blackmac said:

that type of helicopter for that task, leaves quite a bit to be desired, as far as safety is concerned.

Hydro One Helicopters has one of the best safety records in the entire Canadian helicopter industry. All while performing very high risk operations. Are you saying they've just been lucky this whole time and that the AS350 is a ticking time bomb with regards to safety?

23 hours ago, Blackmac said:

equipment you need to operate at 100% safety margin.

There is simply no such thing as a 100% safety margin.

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3 hours ago, Three_Per said:

Love when people outside the government have sweeping generalizations about how those within government work. Keep in mind the age of the people in solved was quite young. They were all a long way from their pensions. 

I retired from the Feds in 2001 after being employed as a Senior Contract Management Officer/Technical Officer and certified as a Transport Canada Auditor (ex Pilot-Eng), with numerous courses at the Southern California Safety Institute and in Canada with Transport, Safety Management Course. I have also taken an ISO course and applied properly it out paces TC inspections by a long shot.

This is simply not true, BC uses twin engine aircraft for all operations carrying passengers. Many operators have tried to bring twins with Fenestrons/NOTARS in to the market (MD900, EC135) with varying success. 

 BIG MISTAKE, the customer who thinks he knows what is best from a safety point should not be calling the shots. If the operators refused to provide helicopters that were not compatible to, or as close to a 100% safety margin for the passengers and crew, who is responsible???? 

Hydro One Helicopters has one of the best safety records in the entire Canadian helicopter industry. All while performing very high risk operations. Are you saying they've just been lucky this whole time and that the AS350 is a ticking time bomb with regards to safety?

I am not questioning HYDRO's safety record, just their choice of helicopter for that job. Did you notice how well the plexi glass cabin absorbed the shock!!!

There is simply no such thing as a 100% safety margin.

It is something to strive for unless you are a magician.

The crew was their own cause of the accident, they were known to leave their seat belts undone and tools unlocked, to complete the job faster.

As I said at the beginning of the thread somebody "GOOFED".      RIP, they got there from repetitive and routine work.  

 

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First of all Condolences to the families and friends of this horrific accident. RIP.

As we all know every accident has multiple factors that make it an accident. 

Working around wires has many inherent risks.  Add in the spinning bits and it makes it even more dangerous.

Accidents in and around the wire environment can happen to non traditional anti-torque systems to:

A09P0353: EC-130B helicopter (C-GMVR) was performing power line sock line stringing operations in Manuel Canyon when the main rotor struck a steel tower. The pilot immediately flew away to the west of the power line and when clear of all ground crew operated the emergency mechanical hook release. He then made a precautionary landing on a nearby road. The helicopter sustained substantial damage. The pilot was not injured. 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Three_Per said:

 

This is simply not true, BC uses twin engine aircraft for all operations carrying passengers. Many operators have tried to bring twins with Fenestrons/NOTARS in to the market (MD900, EC135) with varying success. 

Actually not quite accurate. BC Hydro uses singles for many tasks. Anything where hovering (patrol work, touch and go etc) with passengers, a twin is used. Longlining and moving passengers site to site are often done with single engine machines. 

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