New Fire Rules...

[Skids Up]

p.s. If I have to sleep in a pup tent, then the forestry officer that tells me to do so is going to spend the night in the said tent as well!!!

 

I hope this doesn't change the entire direction of the thread....

[Blackmac]

There's no question that this sleeping in tents bit is a load of horse ####, but I think everybody has been missing the point: why would the aircrews need to sleep close the the fire with the fire crews in the first place????

What kind of emergency would justify this new policy?? What more are we going to be able to do by sleeping close to the fire as opposed to staying 10 miles away?? Is the .2 ferry flight really going to make a difference on the outcome of the fire???

 

JETBOX, I agree.

 

Emergency:

In actual fact you will probably find that the burn is in a stand that some company owns and wants the fire fighters to protect. This is not an emergency except for the tree's. I could be wrong, but I think tree's grow back.

 

An emergency should be declared only when it is a "life threatening situation", not when some company decides it wants the provincial government to protect it's tract of land.

 

Why do they let fires burn in isolated area's.

 

I can hardly wait to hear of all the TC inspectors claiming hardship pay to go to each and every fire to see that the crews are looked after according to CARS.

 

NOTE TO HELICOPTER ASSOCIATION CANADA (HAC):

HAC should advise all Provincial Governments that Aviation Companies and all liceneced personell are governed under federal law and regulations and will act in accordance with the CARS.

 

IMHO, Don

[Charles W.]

p.s. If I have to sleep in a pup tent, then the forestry officer that tells me to do so is going to spend the night in the said tent as well!!!

 

Hmmmm, I guess in this new age era everyone is allowed their own preferences when it comes to who you sleep with, but when we flew fires we found bed partners outside of the AFS managerial pool..

 

I still say set fire to their camp, problem solved.

 

Rev.

[JaJR]

Our management is sitting on the fence and apparently issuing tents. Non-support for staff when the question was raised. Wouldn't want to rock the boat......

 

It is interesting how different standards are between tanker and helicopter flight crews. I really like the clauses that suggest staying in tents for up to so many days at their designation of an emergency.

 

At the end of the day we all want to do a good (safe) job. Is it not unreasonable to ask for decent accomadation and regular meals?

 

The hygene issue aside, I stopped counting the number of meals the came out of the hatrack in the form of a chocolate bar and can of Pepsi to tide me over because the restarant closed already and we're still out the dealing with the emergency. Yes, some of it is part of the job, but some is certainly poor management.

 

I say we (helicopter) flight crew start staying at the tanker bases (good ones only), after all we can park in their area easier than they can ours.

[cap]

JaJR ------you may do as you seem fit of course, BUT for me ..........No meals....NO fly! There is no part of my "job description" that requires or orders of me to go without meals. If "loss of life or personal property" is at risk, then I'll forego that "meals" break and drink water only.....and for some extended period of time. Until that moment arrives "food" and "work" will be connected words and without one, you will NOT get the other. Those are rules that I drew up long before I got my SIN number and don't have need of any government agency or employer to enforce them for me. People can only do to me what I ALLOW them to do to me.....and that ain't on MY list.

 

Accomodations? Any REAL smart person or agency knows that if you give Cap real nice living quarters and feed him quality food, then he'll "work his *** off" for you and "go that "extra mile" in all directions to keep you happy ........because he knows he's working for a "good guy" or organization that cares about his welfare. "Crap" on him and you got a driver with a real bad attitude, who will "work to rule" and won't give you the sweat from his armpit. That rule is commonly known as "The Rule of Common Sense" and applies to a lot more in this industry besides Cap et al.

[collective]

Cap--As always, You have stated everything I would have said. Only with more eloquence.

I have it from a 'very close source' at AFS that, although these new (newer) policies are in the handbook, it is not planned they should be enforced unless it is absolutly required. I am not sure what that means, but I feel safe in saying, not much will change when it comes to accomidations/meals etc. You will still get the box lunches the first day (bring your own to be on the safe side). Day two will see the start of a kitchen setup. After that, eat early before the fire line crews get in. As for sleeping in tents. CARS will dictate. Although last season, several fire management people DID sleep in tents for months at a time (Lost Creek fire). This I know because I had to listen to the same story for months following the season. All in all, AFS is not new to this game and will try to see that we are provided for as well as can be expected. If some faceless bureaucrat in Edmonchuck is thinking along these lines (tents) in order to make his/her mark. Well, it could get interesting.

[Charles W.]

Maybe you should set fire to the Edmonton AFS office then?

:up:

 

Any good aerial suppresion crew should understand that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, just call it backburning to make it sound professional. :up:

 

Rev. C.W..... a retired aerial suppresion professional.

[jetbox]

You need a teddy bear ? Not sure they'll want to share your tent with y

Hmmmm, I guess in this new age era everyone is allowed their own preferences when it comes to who you sleep with, but when we flew fires we found bed partners outside of the AFS managerial pool..

 

Get your minds out of the gutter you imbeciles!!!! What I meant was, the first A-hole that asks me to spend the night in a pup tent will be expected to do the same! (in his own friggin tent you morons!!!!!!!!)

[Charles W.]

Thank God, for a few moments there I was concerned about you.

[cap]

Collective ----- as I'm used to flying a/c that are shaped somewhat the same as me and since they enable me to carry my own "grocery store", I rely on NOBODY to feed Cap or his engineer. So they can forget the SPAM sandwiches (fried or not), because I go "1st class". I've been known to "check-in" at "The Bell Hotel" on more than one occasion and had some great sleeps in that flying "Winnebego". So the Pup Tents, the boiled-real-well, sirloin tip roasts served-up with a generous serving of horseflies is passe for this driver. My "barometer" is my engineer because if he doesn't like the deal and he's the one sweating his *** off at 1AM with his friends the horseflies, Black flies and mosquitos, then I got bigger problems than food.......happy engineer makes a happy machine and that makes Cap a happy pilot.

 

I'm "incommunicado" for awhile starting tomorrow, so if you see a 420gal Bambi laying around someplace, keep your eyes open for Yours Truly.