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New Fire Rules...

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:D I agree, but if we don't say or do something we will be living in tents all across Canada. I don't know how much or should I say how many of us who did live in tents in the old days, don't want to step back in history but move forward. I am not saying that if we have to spend a night or two that would be acceptable, not 21 to 42 days in a tent. I don't work well after more that a couple of days in a tent when I have to eat food that I have to prepare. I am there to fight fires and do a good job and for me I feel that I don't do a good fob if I don't have a good meal and a good nights rest. I want wish all you flyers that will flying fires to fly safe and have fun.

Although most is this forum say they won't live in tents there are plenty of helicopter companies and pilots/engineers that will, even if it doesn't meet the requirements of CARS. Its just like hourly rates, everyone complains but when it comes right down to it there is always someone willing to give their machines away for cheaper. That the CAnadian way! :up:

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Well Well Mag got us it is the BEARS and the BUGS not the sleeping on the ground or eating the crap in camp we are just scared. HEHEHEHEHEHE. :D

ok guys admit it...it's not the bugs, it's not the uneven ground you sleep on, (there's lots of fixes and technologicaly advanced gear for those problems). it's not the fire crews sleeping close to you, it's not the "#1" or "#2" issues.....it's the bears and those creepy noises at night....c'mon, you're all wusses and little black bears keep you awake all night with nightmares :up:


I'm only kidding. I too would frown on the step back in time. I could see the occasional instance where it's better to be prepared than be caught off guard, but we all know what's taken now, will be taken more so in the future.

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Doesn't it make sense to keep the machines and pilots out of the bush. Afterall the pilot gets a chance to get a solid meal and a good night sleep. Any snags that are found can be properly addressed by an engineer over the night. In addition the machine has a chance to get a proper bath! Not to mention the pilots get to go to the local pub after a hard days work, swap a few stories and have a few cold ones. I know that the later also helps keep moral up! :up:

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In conjunction with the discussion here on this forum, the following memo was 'leaked' to a unnamed member of the media, so can't vouch for the author or the validly of it.




Memo to all crews…


Re: QAPPA :shock:


In preparing for the upcoming season, we have decided to stand ahead (upwind) of all crews, and therefore have issued to them, their own personal company equipment. There will be of course, no charge for this as it is felt by management that it is the least we can do for expecting you to go out and fly 8.0 hours of revenue each and every day of your tour. If however, it has not been used by the end of the tour, there will be a small restocking and handling fee. :down:


In order to make sure that other crews are not “first in line,” this equipment will allow you to maintain a “watchful eye” on the fire line and ensure that other A/C and crews will not be able to ‘jump the queue” just because they are well rested and fit for flight after staying in comfortable, quiet, temperature controlled accommodations. After all, they will be a bit more fatigued after completing a positioning flight of approximately ½ hour. (Forestry feels this will be a major safety benefit in their fire fighting abilities. :D ) And at the end of the day, they will still be faced with yet another positioning flight, while you will resting in your accommodations within an easy walk of the fire place, a bathroom complete with the pine fresh smell, and a shower that “feels” as big as the outdoors. :up: :up:


As a progressive company, we feel that it is important to remain on the completive edge, as I’m sure that you realize that this contributes directly to the bottom line. Even though others may laugh, or make remarks about the past (“we did that 20 years ago,” and “that’s nothing new”) we are determined to go forward and ask that put these comments out of your mind and do not fall into the trap of sinking down to their level. :stupid:


Compare this to the exciting experience you have to look forward to and please give the same thought to the correct placement of you equipment, which will also help prevent sinking into the muddy waters of despair… :shock:


So in this light, we are proud to present to you, your own: Quality and Portable Pilot Accommodations – to be known and referred to from now on, as:



Should there be any concerns, questions, or comments, we will be glad to discuss them all, at our anal meeting at a place yet to be determined and at a time yet to be announced. On behalf of myself, let me congratulate all who support our cutting edge philosophy, and are willing to “take one” for the cause. :boff:


Have a good summer, and Be - Safe with Housing out There, to be known and referred to from now on as:


B - SH*T








(*Pronounced crappa)



Let's all have a good summer and fly safe out there... B)B)

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Out of the 2005 AFS Pilot Handbook......






Canadian Air Regulations defines suitable accommodation as:

"a single-occupancy bedroom that is subject to a minimal level of noise, is well ventilated and has facilities to control the levels of temperature and light or, where such a bedroom is not available, an accommodation that is suitable for the site and season, is subject to a minimal level of noise and provides adequate comfort and protection from the elements"


If flight crews are required to reside in tents or similar conditions, Forest Protection Division will attempt to give flight crews an overnight break once every five (5) days at the nearest hotel or similar accommodations. When scheduling overnight breaks a shortened duty day may be needed on the day of departure and/or the day of return.


Heavy fire activity or poor flying weather may extend this time at the fire camp to a maximum of 10 days. Flight crews must have a similar break every five (5) days thereafter. The Incident Commander, Air Operations Branch Director, Air Tactical Group Supervisor or the Wildfire Management Area Duty Officer is responsible for implementation of the breaks.


NOTE: That Pilot should be prepared to over night in tents on the fire during emergency and remote operations. Company is to supply tent and cot/ foam mattress.

For short term only i.e. 1 to 3 night but can anticipate the 5-night policy on large incidents. Not expected to set up in poor conditions [i.e. muskeg swamp] – need dry / quite / cool but not cold conditions.


The Incident Commander, Air Operations Branch Director or his/her designate, shall monitor fatigue of the flight crew and adjust accommodations when necessary.

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Easy way to solve this problem - at the end of the first day on the fire, just ask the fire boss what time he wants you in the air the following morning! Then fill your machine with jet fuel, smile and fly to nearest airport, call a cab and book into a room!


Get up the next morning and go to work...simple.


There is no way any company is going to let there crews stay in tents when good accommodations are available and push these kind of safety issues.


These were the exact words from my operations manager, who stated that $150 dollars in motel rooms, were no big deal for the company to swallow when there crews were flying snowmans and proprer crew rest, showers, meals etc and suitable maintenence conditions were required.

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