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Elvis ------ if the decision of the 205 pilot to not fly above 1000' was based on a fear of the transmission ceasing-up if it lost oil for some reason, then that fear was based on ignorance of the a/c he was flying. If such a thing should happen and he can get that a/c on the ground in 20 minutes, then he can sit down and have a coffee. THAT very type of occurence was one of the US Military's specific requirements that Bell had to meet waaaaay back at "square-one" in order to win the contract. Not hearsay......in a place far, far away, those very happenings were not unknown and their record to living-up to their rep was not unfounded at all. If however, that reason for nothing over 1000' was because he was nervous of heights, then he joins a very long list of other pilots who will fly at 35,000' for their whole careers and yet won't climb an extension ladder to paint their one-story house. We are definitely a weird bunch of professionals.

 

Blackmac ------many years ago there was a "Safety Rep" from HAA who appeared onsite to access what improvements were needed for aviation safety. He started by saying that ALL helicopter pads were to be constructed of expanded metal and grounded with a metal rod. The numbers of pads was endless and some were extremely remote.....and the costs involved were horrendous aand totally impractical. He too, was from an enviroment where such things were easily accomplished. He lasted one week and was politely ushered on his way.......never to be seen or heard of again. Some people you don't have to do anything about..........you just allow them to "dig their own holes"

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Guest bag swinnger

OH COME ON! the original post has yet to be substantiated what is this cyber terrorism? do those white collered shirts come in Nomex? cause if they don't than thats the end of that right here....would someone please post where this crap is actually written, then we can go from there. :rolleyes:

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OH COME ON! the original post has yet to be substantiated what is this cyber terrorism? do those white collered shirts come in Nomex? cause if they don't than thats the end of that right here....would someone please post where this crap is actually written, then we can go from there. :rolleyes:

 

 

Does your company fly for oil and gas customers?

 

If it does its there. Just ask and you shall see. However this pertains to certain oil and gas companies not all. Most haven't been infected yet by this rampand desease.

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bag swinnger

 

If your company is affected by contrail, there will be a large white book/folder that looks a bit like an ops manual, with all the requirements that must be complied with in order to fly for Contrail's customers.

 

Perfect Track

 

"I'm sure his days, or presence, will be limited in the long run."

 

He's certainly been the for 10 years - I don't think he'll go away anytime soon, unless another "consultant" can persuade the customers to listen to them.

 

Phil

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Some operators definitely contribute to Contrail's influence by encouraging actions and recommendations that they think will benefit them from a marketing viewpoint. I was once asked by Mr. Van H how we got our carousels certified as lifting devices. I responded that we didn't, as there was no requirement to do so, and as they were so overbuilt we didn't feel there was any concern. He didn't like this response, but there was nothing he could do.

 

Shortly after that a friend at another company told me that they were getting all their hooks and carousels certified by a crane company as "lifting devices" because Contrail was going to recommend this as mandatory to the seismic companies. The other outfit felt that they would be ahead of everyone else when the new requirement came down the line... thousands and thousands of dollars later it never did happen (maybe it's happened since, I haven't been involved for awhile). It's sort of like the "negative marketing" that 500 operators used to do: "You don't need to make those pads any bigger sir... we can fit our itty bitty helicopters in there no problem..."

 

Operators will continue trying to suppy pilots with the required hours and will grudgingly try to jump through hoops in their quest to compete with other companies. It won't end until either no companies can supply the aircraft and crew for a contract because of the absence of profitability, or the oil companies themselves are compromised (i.e. 1000' ceiling minimum) with no obvious safety benefit.

 

To be fair to the fellows at Contrail (it's not one guy), they are tasked with making recommendations that are supposed to increase the level of safety for their clients without regard for monetary considerations. If their clients can't afford to implement the recommendations, that's not really their concern. The perception that they've made a "reasonable" suggestion is what's important. I really think that a helicopter company could attack one of their recommendations head on with the individual responsible for signing a contract within an oil company. They are people too... and if you make a good case for why you don't agree with a certain requirement, why wouldn't they listen?

 

As to whether their recommendations make any sense, well who can really say? They have been recommending for years that all helicopters be twin engined. This may be a good idea, but the absence of a twin in the right category that would be anywhere close to affordable at the rates we get in Canada makes this a moot point. Contrail definitely has a fixed wing IFR perspective of things. A few years ago they wanted us to implement a complete range of SOP's to fly bags with... Anyone that ever flew bags, or drills, or logs, or helicopters in the mountains, would tell you that this is ridiculous. The variables are changing second by second and you need to be able to react and decide what needs to be done without any consultative process... let alone consulting or memorizing a "comprehensive list" of what you should be doing.

 

Unfortunately we won't be seeing the end of safety consultants anytime soon, but it is a fact that many operators would behave in a completely different fashion if there was nobody breathing down their neck. The sad thing is that a "chisel charter" outfit can jump through a few hoops and then be considered on the same footing as a truly honourable and reputable company. It's mostly a matter of what's on paper, not really what happens in the air.

 

My three cents,

 

HV

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bag swinnger

 

If your company is affected by contrail, there will be a large white book/folder that looks a bit like an ops manual, with all the requirements that must be complied with in order to fly for Contrail's customers.

 

Perfect Track

 

"I'm sure his days, or presence, will be limited in the long run."

 

He's certainly been the for 10 years - I don't think he'll go away anytime soon, unless another "consultant" can persuade the customers to listen to them.

 

Phil

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I heard you the first time Albert :D

Although I agree with you it is is unlikely he'll move on soon enough, maybe if enough guys in the front lines, stand up with valid arguments to the new recommendations, and Contrail, and the companies listen, maybe, just maybe things will smooth out and the industry can move forward and not stagnate and/or move backward.

 

 

Complain all you want on this web page, individual griping makes the individual feel good as the people on this site agree with him.

 

Other than making you feel good, what does it achieve????

 

Wake up and do something about it.

 

Cheers, Don

 

Don't worry Blackmac, forums were not meant to change the world. They are much like AA and Cancer support groups. They simply give you a place to talk about your problems, they surely don't find the cure.

If everyone at least logs out at night thinking good about themselves and what they have said and contributed, that's all that matters, to those who go to bed angry, you need to find another support group.

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Don't worry Blackmac, forums were not meant to change the world. They are much like AA and Cancer support groups. They simply give you a place to talk about your problems, they surely don't find the cure.

If everyone at least logs out at night thinking good about themselves and what they have said and contributed, that's all that matters, to those who go to bed angry, you need to find another support group.

 

Now THAT folks, is a true pearl of wisdom. Very well said PT... :up:

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PT:

 

Thanks for the psychology 101, I actually go to bed quite happy. Retired remember. As I said, babble away and accomplish nothing, some ego.

 

My time in the industry was very interesting, enjoyable and benificial.

 

We, as canucks have had a habit of riding on somebody elses coat tails and we all know who.

 

In my view the industry could use it's own HAI to express it's vue's, because HAC is certainly not doing it.

 

For your added info, I've been to HAI when it was dominated by canuck operators, were you???

 

As for a Cancer Support group, try doing your part, because I have driven 25K in the past year doing just that.

 

I am truly sorry that y'all take an association in such a negative light, when in actual fact it good have a positive outlook for everybody to be heard in a positive manner.

 

As for an association, I tried that with a negative effect.

 

At least I tried to make a difference and it was not for myself.

 

 

Cheers, Don

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