Over Weight, Pooped Out, Out Of Sight

[Mac-Ex-wafu]

Yeah, well, you do it your way and good luck to you and all those who fly with you,

 

But with modern aircraft and modern technology you have a very blinkered view of advances in technology that have been made available to the modern pilot.

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say your syntax is correct but then go on to say:

"That does not therefore mean that you ignore those guages, but they are similar to a GPS in that regard.......they are JUST another aide to navigation and shouldn't be relied on totally"

 

Your engine and transmission guages are no where near the same catergory as GPS,

If your guages are telling you your engines are running hot, what are you going to do?

If your Trans Oil temp comes on, what are you going to do?

 

If you really do feel that as long as the cab FEELS ok the it must be OK, then you really have had a lucky flying career, but by having a philosophy like yours I wonder how many one-time pick ups are waiting round the corner for you.

 

Good luck and gods speed my friend...

[Phil Croucher]

Not that he he needs help from me, but I think cap is pointing out that, just because a gauge or a system is there, it doesn't mean that you should rely on it totally - it's bad CRM to do otherwise. Have they been calibrated correctly? Only by knowing your machine can you use your experience to cross check the gauges themselves.

 

Anyhow, to get back to the original point of this thread, this quote is from an aviation insurance underwriter in London, where it all happens:

 

"If the aircraft is flown outside the conditions of the flight manual, the C of A becomes invalid, the flight becomes illegal and the insurance will not be paid out. If it is shown that the out-of-flight-manual conditions did not contribute to the accident, or were not the main cause, then there is a chance of a pro rata payout. Payouts before the accident report are likely the result of everyone getting around the table and sorting it out."

 

Just because your instruments are within limits, does not mean you are inside the weight limits, as one FAA pilot found out in a Robbie which was 150 lbs overweight recently. Even the humble temperature gauge can be as much as 2-3 degrees out either side of the true temperature, which means that your entry into the charts will be wrong before you start. if the aircraft is telling you something that the gauges aern't, I agree with cap - listen to it!

 

Phil

[twinstar_ca]

using both instruments and the seat of your pants is called "airmanship".. and i believe that's what cap is alluding to... at least that's what i get out of it.. :up:

[PerfectTrack]

the two go hand in hand, yet neither helps you if you are inexperienced. If the machine is talking to you, you better be speaking the same language.

Guages can be out of calibration, yet many have no requirement for it at regular intervals, same goes for your seat of the pants flying, every noise, vibration, etc can have multiple meanings, know all of the possibilities because one of them might be new to even the most experienced.

[407 too]

example of not beleiving the seat of your pants, but trusting the gauges:

 

the airliner that crashed into the Patomic river in the states a few years back, bunch of people drowned in the ice laden river. the report on that came back to erroneous N1 readings (if memory serves correct) because of icing(i know that sounds wierd, but some port was plugged). cockpit voice recording shows concern of the FO not feeling the acceleration as it should be, but captain saying gauges indicate otherwise - rest is history

[Phil Croucher]

And the Gimli Glider! The Captain felt there was something wrong before he took off, but didn't listen to his intuition.

 

Phil

[cap]

-------------and the Captain of the "Gimili glider, Bob Pearson, has been my neighbout since '97. Once the engines died he had his A/S and "feel" to get that 767 over a hundred miles and down onto a long runway that wasn't long because a sportscar club was using one end of it.

 

TS -----"airmanship" to ME means exactly what you said AND also what WAS termed "courtesy of the air'............also another fading "art forum".

 

Perfect Track ------apparently you also understood what I meant. If one doesn't have the experience yet overall or on type then one is still getting that "feeling". Until one does, you live and die by those guages and the FM period......and that's the way it should be because you got nothing else to rely on. You sit in an a/c for 4 - 6000 hours plus and you'll be relying on a lot more than just the guages because by then you've seen them "fib" too many times.

 

 

If anyone ever wanted to see an example of "feeling the a/c" and letting it "talk to you", then one missed an occasion if they never had the pleasure of watching one Bud Tillotson at work in the mountains. He too was big on what the guages said, but NEVER lost sight of the 2nd part either........and knew well when the guages were spitting out bullsh*t to him. Some on the site have had that pleasure of flying with Bud and they know EXACTLY what I'm referring to.

[Phil Croucher]

Cap - would appreciate knowing more about Bob's sixth sense on that day and what he felt - I've introduced intuition it on my CRM/PDM courses and it goes down very well - good examples are always useful!

 

Anyone else with any good intuition examples is also welcome to join in!

 

Phil

[T tail]

Had a feeling before I started a pre flight that something was up, sure a enough a crack in the lead-Lag link in a 500, walked straight up to a crack in a R22 Tail rotor blade as well few years back...dunno if they count but both made me change colour :down: and my shorts. Who knows maybe it was just luck but I was told years ago to listen to that gut feeling even if it was the only thing I ever did

 

cheers TT

[Phil Croucher]

T Tail - Thanks for that - if you don't mind me using you as an example! My intuition has saved me a lot of trouble in the past, and I have taken the trouble to try and develop it. They are good examples - I don't let the intuition rule my flying, but if it tells me something I have learned to listen!

 

Phil